Why the probelm with large English brand names?

I think there's a big conceptual jump from not having a flat response to very low frequencies and completely missing fundamentals.

I currently use bass limited speakers, I don't get peculiar octave jumps in bass lines. I was once at a wedding in a church and the chap behind was singing some hymn on the edge of his range, he was jumping up and down an octave, I spotted that....

Paul

 

voodoo,
the discussion (between the sniping) is about how accurately the information on the disc can be turned into sound - no one is suggesting that what is on the disc is an absolute portrayal of what was recorded but once it's been slapped onto polycarbonate or vinyl it can be read and reproduced with increasing accuracy.
if the ego's were checked at the door this would be an interesting discussion about the perception of music. as it is it's hard work.
cheers


julian

 

Fair point Julian but is there ANY piece of equipment out there that can accurately reproduce what is recorded when you take into account the influences of things such as the listening room and personal preference ?

Why try to reproduce a particular note as accurately as possible when it may not have even been recorded accurately ?

Futile.

 

There's another big conceptual jump from having an uneven bass response to having +20dB peaks all over the place so you can't hear what's going on. The only point I'm trying to make is that while you may well prefer one compromise to the other, it's nonsensical to try to present that as intrinsically "better" or more virtuous.

It doesn't usually sound peculiar unless you know exactly what you're listening for. Bear in mind that many acoustic instruments - double bass, contrabassoon, harp, piano - have fundamentals around or below 30Hz towards the bottom of their range, and the modern orchestral bass drum usually has a lot of its output around 30Hz as well. The pipe organ can of course go considerably deeper again.

 

EH?

You really are begining to sound like a plonker

 

I disagree about 'nonsensical'. I think it's worthwhile to attempt to put values on the compromises from an accuracy pov.

It seems my speakers have a free air response that's down a mere 6dB at 35Hz. So we're not talking Bub levels of bass-light... I would like to try a sub-woofer sometime, but I think it would introduce an unacceptable compromise.

Paul

 

I think you're right that if you do end up getting very specific about accurate reproduction, then the room is a major factor. Meaning that a system that is very 'accurate' in one room won't necessarily be in another. Some part of the system would have to be 'inaccurate', so to speak, to get the right result in a specific room.

 

I'm just thinking that maybe we should get Michael to add another section to the forum, perhaps title it 'Bub squares up, and then these arguments can be gone round in circles for as long as it wants.
The REL thread was fun, I participated but there is no doubt it sucked the life out of the forum. Perhaps it is time that thread and the antecedent arguments are really put to death. This is the third rehearsal of this argument we've had in recent months, and Paul is right. You've both got fantastic set-ups, I'd happily give them both houseroom as they would both wee over mine, but you are never going to agree.
I've got a horrible feeling Michael may get the same feeling Joel had with groovehandle if we continue on our current course. Now that would really be a sad day

 

Voodoo, you are overlooking that the thrust of Merlin, AK, Julian, I, etc is to establish the futility of anyone claiming their system is (or ever could be) considered accurate. That in fact a single individual can find their goals within this or any other sphere of life are subjective to one extent or another. Paul and far more significantly James appear to see things in terms of absolutes which is truly laughable and we are just gently allowing them to make fun of themselves (done with affection of course).

I notice though both Paul and James have started to introduce phrases with doff a cap to relativism - I like it.

 

The arrogance is unbelievable, Julian, surely this is very humorous, this deluded pair really believe they have seen the wiring under the board.

James if your sysytem is more accurate than "any of us believe" then I'm glad my system is not accurate, and if the TT, Pre and Speakers you have are soooooo gooooood then why do you need all that ****.?

And why is everyone who disagrees with you wrong or deaf, surely me, Dunc, Merlin, WM (and his clients) <any body else who disagrees with James>, surely we can't all be wrong, can you answer how you arrive at this wild assumption.

And taking Merlin's point re studio's and WM's clients, I have yet to see tyou quote anyone other than Pink Floyd, and others, with regard to ATC's and only Mana fans on the website (no more than 4-5 at your level of gulibility) as endorsing the products.

 

voodoo,
no of course there isn't however most mainstream audio is getting it about 70% right (number pulled straight out of my arse there) and i would guess that the most accurate system in the world in an anechoic chamber made of solid gold would aproach about 98% (again number straight from the dreadful oubliette) so there is a fair bit of leeway. also the accuracy of what we have to work with (vinyl / cd) may not be perfect but at present it's all we have so we'll have to do the best we can.
at the end of the day though what sounds more 'accurate' deep but 'wobbly' bass or spot on midbass seems to be a subjective thing or perhaps not?
cheers


julian

 

I would add that some of the recent content in this thread is, whilst old ground, an interesting read and isnt quite a pointless as some other recent subjects...

 

From what I can see (ie. ATC's spec regards the 100's) they cut off at 35Hz/-6DB so that would be identical to James' low end response.

 

Greg that's been my argument all along, I really couldn't give a hoot what anyone else really thinks of ny system why should I it's the elitist attitude and sneering tone of the posts that has annoyed me, after all why should I care what James thinks, he is obviously DEAF, but truthfully he is looking for a different presentation from me, but his attitude that his path is the 'right one' objectively, is what's getting up my nose.

I'm begining to wonder when they will f off and annoy the PFM and **** boys again, so we can get on with discussing HIFI (or whatever it is based on James definitions of HIFI) with humnour and NO willy waving.

 

If you want to know who uses ATC monitors, check their website. The reason I use a lot of Mana has been gone into many times on this board - do a search if you are interested.

Hi-fi is an elitist interest. If you hadn't started making things up, this thread wouldn't be happening.

 

Bollox.

 

So everyone can afford it?

 

Greg, that's basically what I was trying to get at .

 

No, but that doesn't make it elitist.

 

Yes it effing does. What about foxhunting? Elitist, or not?