Why the probelm with large English brand names?

Seemed to work for you when you summed up AK,s system

 

What do you mean? Seriously. Do you think that a Ninja LP12 / Naim ARO / ESCo-retipped Linn Troika on phase 9 Mana, and a Naim NAC 52 on phase 9 Mana, and ATC SCM 100A SLs on phase seven Mana aren't accurate? Where have you heard such a system?

 

Firstly: IYHO.

Secondly: since when was bass below 40Hz "redundant information"? There was me thinking we were talking about fidelity...

 

Pete,

I understand where Paul is coming from - sadly distorted and boomy bass does have a profound effect on the fidelity of the lower midrange. Having said that, so does it's absence. I guess it's a case of deciding which is most intrusive to the individual's version of accurate.

The truth is that it is relatively easy these days to acheive proper bass extension without suffering from the distortions Paul finds so offensive - but too many people still seem to have hangups dating back to the 80's and the flat earth dogma.

 

Well said. Personally flat earth concepts entirely compromise on a key area of accuracy - imaging. IMO without the ability to image a system couldnt be described as accurate.

Paul commented: "The absence or reduced presence of redundant information is less significant than gross distortion and over emphasis of redundant information"

All seems a bit subjective to me. I dont feel any sense of epiphany as to the pricise goal of hifi reading this.

 

Note, I didnt comment on Bub's setup, my comment simply raises the notion that according to the reputations of both the LP12 and Naim amps and according to my limited experience - accuracy is not the primary strength.

So would you not concede that your notion of "accurate" is a very subjective one?

 

I didn't sum up AK's system. I know Bub's system, I take that and what AK has described and draw an inference. If I'm wrong it's because AK is wrong.

Paul

 

"That's an interesting argument from personal inexperience." I like the linking of blame for your potential error to AK - illogical of course but amusing.

I like the idea that if I have heard system A and the owner of system B has also heard system A that I dont really need to hear system B but I can draw conclusions from the comments exchanged sufficient for me to comment on system B due to my incredible powers of deduction.

 

I can hear the pitch of a bass instrument without a flat response to very low frequencies. Therefore the information is strictly 'redundant'. Doesn't mean it isn't good to have. OTOH a system that does bad bass makes it harder to hear the pitch of a bass instrument. It's clear which is the more accurate.

What makes you think that 'flat earth concepts' compromise on imaging? IME many 'Round Earth' systems image inaccurately, or perhaps it's the listeners ears. Read David Allcock in HFN sometime for many examples of bogus imaging imagery.

BTW I am not advancing the LP12 or Naim amps as paragons of accuracy, although I think you can spend a lot more and do a lot worse. Perhaps there are rather too many agenda on display here?

Paul

 

Elementery my dear Watson, when we have dismmissed all the logic, only the illogical remains

 

Now you're getting stupid.

Paul

 

I would agree that bad bass is pointless to the reproduction.

Flat earth concepts are surely, in simple terms, the dated notion of the trade of imaging and detail in favour of "music" and foot tapping?

I would also suggest you could spend less and do a lot more, but thats probably just my humble naivity.

No agenda from my perspective whatsoever, if you think there is one I'm curious to know what it is. My comment raises the principle that if you feel James' system is a paragon of accuracy and it (the vinyl playback) is based on an LP12 and a Naim pre-amp I just assumed there is a big tick in your box for these two products regards the "precise goal" of accuracy. If not then Jame's setup isnt necessarily the best example regards this precise goal which opens this debate up a little regards other contenders - perhaps including AK's system?

 

Not I. I am just restating your own proposition.

 

Paul,

how can a bandwidth limited system accurately portray the acoustic of a large venue and therefore provide an accurate facsimile of the recording?

As for the pitch of an instrument, surely if pitch were the only concern, all instruments would sound similar? What about accurate timbre?

 

All systems are bandwidth limited. Music and human hearing are bandwidth limited.

Paul R has actually heard my system recently. The rest of you haven't. Hence the confusion.

 

What, you mean the ATCs cut off at 32 Hz (anechoic)? You are having a laugh.

 

Moot point but they cut-off at 35Hz @ -6Db. Not deep enough in my opinion if you consider where the -3DB frequency floor is likely to be.

 

James, for once I was not referring to your precious setup, but since you mention it, have you considered why many studios use subwoofers with the ATC's?

 

I'm sorry to have to say this, but until such time that you have heard an LP12 and Naim preamp on a good pile of Mana, you really don't know what you are talking about.

Basing judgements on 'reputations' is not good enough.