Ye Ol Written Word

swear the hypocratic oath however there is a lot of pressure on them to use certain drugs, or follow certain procedures, red tape or treat private patients rather than nhs ones that perhaps mean they are not doing 'no harm'.

I assume you mean the Hippocratic oath. I never swore it, not part of the curriculum at Guy's.

I don't feel any pressure to use any particular drug over any other, besides those of clinical need and the presence of any drug sensitivity or allergy.

Red tape is rife.

Yes, I see patients privately, after I have worked the hours for which the NHS pays me. I try to do no harm, but very occasionally things go wrong, and this is one of the more distressing aspects of what I do.

Back to religion. Why do Jews have a word for non-Jews which is clearly mildly derogatory? And why do they think they have a [God-given?] right to occupy another people's country? I'm not just anti-Semitic [the religion, not the people], btw: I am anti- them all. The fundie Christians are just as, if not more awful.

 

james,
i wasn't referring to you directly (and thanks for correcting my speelung) with the hippocratic oath thing, just trying to say that the best of intentions can go awry even when there is no intent that they should. the 10 commandments which are part of the jewish faith (i believe) state 'thou shalt not covet thy neighbors ass' or 'don't nick your neighbors stuff'. are the israeli settlements a religious thing or a political one? the latter i would say so it's not 'jews' as in those of the jewish faith at fault here it's people being led by people with an agenda of their own. i would agree that atrocities have been commited in the name of many religions throughout history however there is nothing in the core tennents of most religions that actually says 'kill thy neighbor' quite the opposite in fact. the trouble is that most religions are ambiguous enough to be open to interpretations by unscroupulous men. is that the fault of the religion or of man?
cheers


julian

 

Hello Devil

Just caught up with this thread...........

"I just thank God for making me an atheist." Devil

A little confused here as I thought an atheist says there is no God?

Regards Agnostic

Barnie.

 

Re: Hello Devil

This is known in the technical parlance as humour, Barnie. And is sadly lacking amongst our fundy (copyright The Devil 2004) compatriots.
Another question would be "Why do we need God?" to which Richard Dawkins (quite fundy in his own way, too) seems to think he has found the answer amongst various blind watchmakers and their ilk.
Some interesting (for a change) articles on the BBC news site recently about research into Chimpanzee violence. Chimps, of course, have no religeon, but like us have a very strong group identification. They are also, like us, prone to occasional acts of extraordinary and premeditated violence - at least the males are.

 

Back to my mother in law. She calls me a heathen. I call her a witch. I have no desire to occupy her house, though curiously enough, she seems to be round ours all the time.

James, i think you may have struck upon something sir.

 

Possibly because in order to survive invasion, exile, pogrom and holocaust, the Jewish people have had to develop an extraordinarily strong sense of their own identity and their own worth.
While I am certainly no fan of much Israeli government policy, there are reasons why certain things are the way they are. To begin to understand those reasons you need to look back a very long way and also take a long hard look at the recent past.
BTW, to be anti-semitic is not to be anti-religeon, but to be anti-Jew. I don't think that is what you meant, but you may wish to review the phrase.
PS I think most monotheist religeons and indeed most groups have derogatory terms for non-members or outsiders.

 

No, it's not. Semites are a population group. They may be of Jewish faith or they may not be.

Jews may be semitic or they may not be.

As a German, I'm painfully aware that belonging to a certain religion has no direct relation to belonging to a certain population group.

 

....who speak a Semitic language.

For all intents and purposes though, i think most people just understand Anti-Semitism to mean primarily anti-Jew for obvious historical reasons. Technically it could also be in reference to an Arab for example, but i don't think it is oft used in this sense, to my knowledge. At the end of the day, it's just a word, and if someone is anti-Jew, anti-Arab or anti-organic root vegetables, i think they will translate their thoughts quite adequately, regardless of the verbiage.

 

I am fairly well aware of what semitic means. But be very careful, because in *general* rather than in technical socio-linguistic usage, anti-semitic is taken to mean anti-Jewish.
In any case, my point is that Devil is no fan of the faith, but is not anti the Jewish people or the non-Islamic population (and of course including the Christians, though he does not not necessarily approve of their professed faith(s)).
Is that better?

 

joel,

I am fairly well aware of the general usage of the term anti-semitic. However, that general usage is plain wrong and is indicative of some fairly sloppy, or possibly ill-minded, thinking. It effectively perpetuates Nazi propaganda.

Sorry to appear pedantic here.

 

HAHAHA, a thread that descends into one of the most taboo pub discussion subjects : Religion :kneel:.

It served it's purpose in the past as a means of giving reason to life and creating order. However, hell is going to be a mighty busy place. Well, if everybody else's religion is wrong then we're all f*cked, aren't we?

I don't mean to offend anybody who is particularly religous but it is a complete and utter farce. A total power trip. It may help some overcome adversity but I think you'll find that a high percentage of that adversity is in some way linked to religion. Just look at the over-population in Africa !
Contraception - nah. The big man upstairs isn't for that. Oh, sorry I mean the little man, with tht funny hat, that speaks in many languages but can only dribble the odd conversation.

For a valued opinion on how pathetic religion is I recommend a dose of "Bill Hicks". He'll show you the true and rightous path.

For those that believe that the world was built in 6 days (on the 7th he had a spliff), try a very interesting book called "Uriel's Machine".

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...3110/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_10_1/202-3972230-6236614

another worthy read is :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...13461/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2_2/202-3972230-6236614

If your religion praises you for giving your life, whilst taking others then, I'm sorry but there are serious problems. If it asks you to persecute and pre-judge groups such as homosexuals, the mentally/physically disabled or those of different skin colour then there are serious problems.

Religion is a tool of control. It stops people from descending into madness and gives meaning to existance. It's also very useful for making people do what you want.

If religion hadn't existed, I am confident that we would still be here. I do feel though that we would be very different.

Do you think animals/insects/fish have a perspective on God ?
NO, because they know that the cycle of life is: Born - re-produce - Die.
No bullshit in-between. We've just evolved to become smart enough to create religion whilst remaining stupid enough to fall for it.

What you choose to do has nothing to do with some higher power - it all comes from the inside. The sooner we realise and appreciate that the better.

 

Absolutely agree. The reason we have developed various religions, and the other animals have not, is perhaps that we are the only animals who are aware of our own mortality.

 

We're all ****ing lunatics, whichever way you look at it. Best to be born blind.

 

if i've got my facts right (and i may not have so feel free to call me on it) i believe that the passage in the koran that 'states' this is very ambiguous and open to interpretation. some insane types have taken to it meaning go and kill people. similarly with the contraceptive issue stated earlier, this is fallout from that ever popular bible quote 'go forth and multiply'. the interpretation by man is wrong not the central message, all i'm saying is don;t throw out the baby with the bath water... not that i'm particularly religious but if people followed the core principles of most religions and ignored all the mystical gibberish and political rhetoric that was only valid for a short time a thousand or more years ago then the world would be a much nicer place.
cheers


julian

 

A fair point Julian - but has this scenario ever existed ?
For me, the apparent purpose of religion was control and was created by people that desired that degree of control. The mystical gibberish and political rhetoric have been there since people began questioning the validity of religion. It was used as a scare tactic to ensure the power remained with those that wanted it to keep it and kept the little people quiet.

It created many a "God fearing man".

 

Markus,
You are right. But anti-semitic is still generally understood as meaning "anti-Jewish" even though it could be argued that this is technically innacurate.
Either way, I don't think it was what Devil meant.

Joel

PS
Looking back at this thread why do I keep spelling religion as religeon? My typing is famously atrocious, but that is scary.

 

Who knows. But that does seem unlikely. As Devil has pointed out we appear to be the only animal aware of its own mortality (although perhaps this is a matter of degree), and religion (sigh) seems to have evolved from burial and hunting rituals - both of which are, of course, tightly linked with the cycle of life and death.

 

Finished this the other day:



The Meaning of Everything: The Story of the Oxford English Dictionary
Simon Winchester

These Victorians are a studious bunch aren't they. Even the lesser celebrities amongst the assembled cast in this book seem to be fluent in at least 20 different languages.

Check out this one guy (James Platt) 'who knew scores of languages and once famously declared that the first twelve tongues were always the most difficult, but having mastered them, the following hundred should not pose too much of a problem' .

I felt like a right thicko by the time i finished the book.

 

Ah, fantastic Cookie

Having watched a program on TV about that very subject and finding it interesting to say the least, I was on the look out for a book like this that went into more detail. It looks like you've found it for me!!

I'll be ordering that one tonight :MILD:

Cheers,
Rick

 

Simon Winchester also wrote a brilliant book called The Map the Changed the World about William Smith and the history/discovery of strata based mapping. Definitely worth a read, I think Channel 4 made a program about it as well.