ZeroGain Reviews

additional loosers
customers of the retailers with the ability to think for themselves

additional loosers
UK based workforce, when the manufacturers all sell direct from their far east based worksops

final loosers
the manufacturers, when no body earns earns enough money to but their luxury trinkets

 

Customers who think for themselves wont lose, most of them are on line already for a large percentage of their purchases. I am exploring ways of providing low cost solutions to the access to try product that dealers provide. And also as a low cost more trustworthy replacement for the function of magazine reviews

If they were going to take production to the far east they would do it anyway retailers or no. The only people liable to lose their jobs are a couple of hundred retailers and staff, and I bet they are taken on to help service the direct sales by the manufacturers.

Win Win - no losers of any consequence - the landlords of the shops probably, all specialist shopping will be dying - the local council tax. Consequences - lower prices so greater affordability - leading to expanded market place. Not just a few sale stitch-up.

Richard

 

Richard,

I was under the impression that you are being forced to sell direct as the dealer community really doesn't like to risk getting burnt twice by manufacturers that could potentially cease supply at any minute. This being the case, the only real beneficiary is you, and other companies like yours. Personally I'm happy living of the rich folk's discarded tit bits on Audiogon.

 

Richard

well done for working out the internet. there's a really interesting auction site called ebay and neat book shop called amazon together with loads of other smaller retailers. congrats on realising you can too be one of those.

 

Just the beginning and with problems and not industry focused enough. As many have said something is missing, human contact? in terms of reviews, advice, demonstration, set up skills. Those are the things if you are lucky enough to get a good dealer who can be bothered (and for budget sales most can't) that still keep many from taking advantage of on line prices. If you know what you want or are willing to take a chance and sell on if it is not what you want, then all well and good

What I am saying is those skills and that service can be provided by *community* in this case forums are an obvious start point. If forums create a means for that service, very easily from what I have proposed, then manufacturers will use it.

Richard

 

Sorry to give you the wrong impression. Nothing I have said should lead you to that conclusion, since restarting production I haven't approached even a single retailer or distributor. I have been approached but turned them down. Back in the 90's with the old company I virtually gave up on UK retailers and about 90% of our production went export. Fascinatingly now through direct on line sales about 70% is export.

So this community concept I am pushing will have to have local elements. Anyone who pushes new ideas gets kicked in the arse by the established predudices, but as I said in another post "if a seed is planted then all well and good".

Richard

 

All this effort over 50 quid? Its cost you more than that in time and wasted energy in the umpteen threads that you have started since '50 quid gate' first reared its ugly head.

 

OK so you wish to drag us back to the old dissagreement. Well I am afraid you have it the wrong way around. My efforts to promote this caused 50 quid gate not the other way around as you suggest. That anyway was just a tantrum blip by all concerned. I all ready offered to send 50 quid to a charity of their choice, on my side it is not about money it is about principle. Anyway it seems if I reply to any of these posts I get accused of restarting the fracas, so leave it alone and discuss the subject of the thread, for which I would welcome your input.

Richard

 

I personally think that this is a good idea if a reliable and knowledgeable panel of volunteers are set up with the concerns about logistics and insurance etc ironed out. Given time and dedication it can certainly have the opportunity to blosoom into site where audiophiles visit and source for information; all well and good to the welfare of Hifi as a hobby or something more serious.
It just seems to me the remarks made by some people here are unjustified and go against the common good of people interested in hifi.... more like person-bashing maybe?

I for one will be very interested in seeing good quality reviews coming out from zerogain.

gecko

 

Ok,fair enough.My opinion is in won't take off,its just as easy to try stuff out via Ebay and sell on,in fact,you can might cover your costs doing it.I am sure a small number of volunteers will participate willingly,but thats it.What will you get out of it? You need to make money,how will you do that?

 

The money saving bit could well not be that much in real terms.
Lets say Mr Hi-Fi not is looking for his first budget system, CD player and amp at £500 each from his dealer.
At the minute if he goes to his dealer he will hear 3 or 4 options, if he goes to 2 dealers, thet gets him, with cross over 6 options. Added to that he will probably be able to hear 6-8 speakers in his price band. He narrows it down to a choice of 2 of each at the dealers, and his home dem (if he bothers) closes it out. Its cost 2 afternoons, and 2 car trips. He buys a full system so the chances are he will get some cable chucked into the box as well.

Alternativley he searches around the net, decides which boxes to home dem, makes arrangements for them to turn up, has god knows how many afternoons/mornings waiting in for deliveries, and pays out how much in carrage costs and returns. Say 3 amps. 3 cd spinners, 3 pairs of speakers, (and stands?) at £20 a box to and from, plus the cables to use, so lets say £200, plus his time. So out of his first purchase of a £1500.00 system he may get for £900.00-£1000.00 if all the makers deal direct, plus £200 in courier costs, so £1100.00, plus his time off to receive the parcels. Hardley a saving of earth shattering proprtions given the altenative of a decent dealer, with a choice of products, and mostly a good service level.
It would appear that most of us have a better relationship with the dealers than you do.
I wonder why that could be?

 

there seems to be a lot of negativity in this thread in general.

the opening gambit seemed to be just 'do you want to try some new stuff for free' ?

I'm probably too bone-idle, but I know lots of people like to play and tweak. Here's a chance for them to have a play.

 

A lot of vested interests - me thinks!

Richard

 

Only yours Richard it seems - speaking personally, I simply don't like the way you have gone about things, and feel you are simply using our communities to freeload. It's been done by others in the past, but offenders like WM were far more entertaining whilst doing it.

 

I object to that statement and it borders on being libelous. Please back it up with factual examples of this behaviour by me. IMO absolutely nothing I have done can be interpreted that way. In fact nothing has been done at all, these are suggestions and topics for discussion. My principles have probably cost me business if anything, it would be much easier to bow to convention cough up and shut up. Sorry not me

I keep explaining but you don't listen (I wonder why) - I repeat yet again - if no one is interested in NVA products ever again it means next to nothing to me apart from rejection type disapointment. I have a business, which was my hobby when nva was my business, now that is my business and this is sort of my hobby, though it is at the moment paying for better holidays which pleases the wife no end

I am exploring community concepts that also happen to have marketing connotations, (if you allow me to quote from my *business* - it is all just yin and yang you cannot have one without the other, all we should try to do in life is find balance).

Richard

 

I really am sick of this, Mr Dunn, I do my best to be constructive and now you accuse me of having vested interests. When you are floating an idea you should shut up a while and wait for various reactions, not answer individual posts point by point, which stifles rather than encourages discussion. I suggest you give it a rest for a while and let some others have a free discussion without you creating the feeling you are breathing down their necks all the time waiting to pounce. The effect of you postings serves the exact opposite of what you were claiming - to want to give something back to the community.

 

You are sick of it, then your option is the same as for everyone, either ignore it or switch off!! I will not be libeled or have my motives questioned. Regarding you being a vested interest I said nothing of the sort. You *were* supportive, so you have the opposite of a vested interest in disrupting this being discussed.

Carry on, discuss.

Richard

 

Richard

You are being your own worst enemy here and your bolshiness reminds me of another awkard minded proprietor of a small hifi business who has recently ceased trading.

A customer needs to know that when he is dealing with a small supplier, he will be treated fairly if say something goes wrong, as it will inevitably will.

You are coming across as plain stubborn and argumentative and I would be reluctant to buy anything off you just for that reason.

Just look at your recent track record.

1. You make your " I am off" statement publically in a hissy fit which anyone can see is a red rag to PFM, who only asked for a paltry £50.00 which was already within their rules. There are sensible principles and plain daft principles and your stance was unbusinesslike and plain daft.

2. You then get banned and then after voluntarily buggering off, you make a song and dance about it over here making yourself look even dafter.

3. You are entering into ludicrous "discussions" with more people than is sensible and your image is now one of stubborness and bloody mindedness.

Ask yourself a question .... would you buy something off someone like you.

I wouldn't.

Regards

Mick

 

Because of the *sound* of my products and because I am honest in everything I do. The fact that I will stand up for myself when I consider I have been wronged is part of my personality. What is your motivation - to wrong or to right wrongs?

A note to the mods - do you see how others are trying to drag the conflict up again and on to this thread, I am not.

Richard

 

Addenda

2. You then get banned and then after voluntarily buggering off, you make a song and dance about it over here making yourself look even dafter.

Wrong sequence - I "buggered off" and then the door was shut hours after the horse had bolted.

Richard