Advice wanted from any employers

amazingtrade

amazingtrade

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When writing your CV and you put down your skills what should you include and leave off?

For example I have got some Java experience, I got one of the highest marks in the assignment, and understood a lot of it, however I wouldn't say I was good enough to be a professional Java programmer.

The same applies to C/C++, I have produced windows applications but I am not expert.

The area I am becoming quite expert in (developing accessable CMS systems for websites) there seems to be hardly accesseble jobs, they are all too high end requirng commerical experience and I don't have much of that.

I've realised due to personal issues like moving out I need to get a job for a year at least before starting my own business.
 
Don't worry too much about skills....mean nothing....a decent degree would be the most important thing..






:D
 
No sarcastic comments either please, if I wanted them I would have gone into play school and asked :p

My degree is totaly irrelevant, what I have learn't on it is highly revevant, I should get a 2:1 unless I have done really badly last semester.
 
AT - put down EVERYTHING that is positive that you can. Your CV will show that you've not got experience, and anyone interviewing a new graduate will expect that. However, familiarity with systems goes a long way.

When you come out of uni, you will learn more in the first 6 months in your job than in a year at uni. You don't suddenly stop progressing at something because you've come out of uni. If you're put on a java project, you'll improve your java skills. If you don't put what skills you have on your CV, you'll never get that job.
 
Isaac Sibson said:
AT - put down EVERYTHING that is positive that you can. Your CV will show that you've not got experience, and anyone interviewing a new graduate will expect that. However, familiarity with systems goes a long way.

When you come out of uni, you will learn more in the first 6 months in your job than in a year at uni. You don't suddenly stop progressing at something because you've come out of uni. If you're put on a java project, you'll improve your java skills. If you don't put what skills you have on your CV, you'll never get that job.
Click to expand...

Thanks, so they shouldn't complain then? Its hard to know what companies are expecting, where I work at the moment (which is only very part time so its no good long term) they are very good, they don't expect me to know everything.

I should go to the careers office but every time I have gone in the past it seemed like a total waste of time. I wish I could start applying now but its too early, I am not bothering with graduate schemes becuase a lot of my experience is practical rather than academic and my GCSEs/A levels would let me down.
 
I have nothing to do with software (and so a completely different tack may be required) but points I look for (or notice if missing) when I look at CVs:

And this is not in order of importance, but in likely order of reading & purely my interpretation:

1) Printed vs hand written. Hand written is good if decipherable & no spelling mistakes...errr...maybe we shouldn't go there ;)
2) Age - if older, then married + kids = need to earn a living.
if younger, not married + no kids = then need to show they are hungry for a job/experience/bettering themselves. This should mean a well presented & thought out CV, serious selling of themselves (meaning some thought reference CV vs versus job applied for), some interesting/challenging/unusual hobbies (not films & socialising...)
3) Education & Qualifications (here we go again..): depends what they are applying for. Any are better than none. NVQ lower levels..hmmm. Btec/HND etc OK, degree..'nuff said already. Degree or higher qualifications from completely different field always interesting...means change of career = thought about the future + bit of adventure.
4) Experience - some of my worst hires have had many years of experience...some of my best hires have come from completely unrelated fields with little or no experience - attitude & ability count for a lot...many years of 'experience' can mean set in (slow & predictable) ways...or sometimes not. I suspect that this may not be the case with software/programming? But then again....
...back to point 2) - Is the CV pointed at the job. If it appears that a conscious effort has been made to mould the CV to the job advertised, then brownie points.
In your example, if they asking for a specific skill e.g. Java experience, then say you got the highest marks in the assignment (a little white lie is allowed - IMO, but then I would never know any better until you had your ass on the chair in front of me, & probably not even then - & that is what it is all about at this stage remember). Say you have experience of this (as required in advert) & experience of that (as required in advert). Make it relevant, but don't say it is not enough or you are not an expert.. If the ad asks for very specific experience or skills, then they probably mean it...may be worth an application if your skills don't match exactly, but don't bank on an interview..
5) Other. If you have an off the wall hobby, sideline or interest, shout about it...unless it is illegal. Music, films, going down the gym...yawn...DIY hi-fi power supplies will raise an eyebrow. ...raise an eyebrow and you have a better chance of an interview....with me at least. ;)

Edited to say - since 2104 I have been typing this so missed the
No sarcastic comments either please
Click to expand...
...it's taken me this long 'cos I've already sunk a bottle of wine so it's taken ages to check my spellings.. ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Goddam I can't help myself...the lowest form of wit...I will go away...
 
Thanks there is a lot of useful stuff there, I am also booking a 45-minute appointment with the careers service tomorrow. My CVs are usually always quite specific to the job, I had to reword my CV on the personal side because it sounded far too geeky before.

Its just that time of year when stress, panic and worry starts to set in :).
 
No I won't.

Think about how you are going to make yourself stand out. You don't sound overly confident about relevance of the qualifications, sounds like you have little experience, so think about how are you going to attract attention. You post on here a lot (don't mention that :rolleyes: )....you have a passion. How can you show them on your CV that you have a passion (doesn't matter whether it is job related or not)?
'Very part time' is irrelevant. It is experience. Sell it!
No company will expect you to know everything as a new graduate. All (worth working for) should expect you to make a positive contribution.
 
I am not confident simply becuase I don't know who I will be competing against, when I got my part time job 7 others were also interviewed, that was just for 4 week job at the time (but they kept me on).

I do have some niche's I will need to produce a new site to demonstrate it becuase mine is crap, but I think I have a greater understanding of web standards and accessability than most the people I will be competing against, and this is one way I aim to sell myself, as its becoming more and more relevent thanks to changes in the law.
 
at,
lie and lie big. then find the weakest part of thier system and write something that works but is unintelligable to anyone else - or if you're a bastard requires your weekly fettling for it to continue working. have a read of THIS for inspiration. there, that's the big secret to the business world, use it wisely.....
cheers


julian.


note: this post was 50% bullshit, 30% arse and 20% real life.
 
julian2002 said:
at,
lie and lie big. then find the weakest part of thier system and write something that works but is unintelligable to anyone else - or if you're a bastard requires your weekly fettling for it to continue working. have a read of THIS for inspiration. there, that's the big secret to the business world, use it wisely.....
cheers


julian.


note: this post was 50% bullshit, 30% arse and 20% real life.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I suppose I could use the threat of companies being sued if they don't hrie me, but I think this could end up with me spending time at Strangeways for blackmail :D
 
  1. Create a fairly generic CV -- you might customise a few things for each job, but generally it'll be the same. Do not handwrite this -- use a computer. You're going for a computing job show you at least can use one.
  2. Include a cover letter being specific on what drive, or skills you have relevant to their job or company. This will be different for each company. Handwriting this might make you stand out *if* you have legible handwriting. Color or textured paper also might help.
  3. Do have a web site that you can point to. A lame site might be better than nothing. At least you did it, and went through the hosting process, and understand what a server is, etc. It demonstrates initiative, which as a grad is the primary thing you have.
  4. Do put down everything you have done. Don't lie, but don't put negatives down either. If you know Java put it. During the interview when they ask about it, sell it (be positive), but don't strech things too much. Do not say "you don't know much" -- you might say something like "I'd like to learn more about design patterns", or whatever. Phrase what you don't know or didn't do, as an opportunity for what you are *going* to do. Having a plan for when you'll do it is good too.
  5. Do be prepared with questions specific to the position. I can't help much there. Also have some generic questions. As an entry level person maybe you'd like to know who you'll be working with (ask if you can meet them); what kind of social events do they organize, etc. If you want to be pushy (be very careful here), ask what skills does the ideal candidate have (thus how you fit), who will you be reporting to, who has budgetary authority in your group -- again these might not apply as an entry level person.
  6. Oh, and be positive, and do not outright lie. :)

    ~ ~ Dave
 
If you lie, you'll get found out eventually. This could cost you the job. List your qualifications and skills as that is what employers are most interested in. No-one I know takes the slightest bit on interest in the hobbies and interests bit of the application form/CV so I wouldn't bother including those. Start with Qualifications, then skills, then experience, if you have work on the web they can look at, finish off by directing them there. If they are interested in you they may look at it, so make sure it's worth looking at, and is grammatically correct. If it's not they may percieve a gap in your basic skills.
A page should do it.
When you write a letter make sure that it is shaped towards the job. If there is a person spec, use it to organise your paragraphs. Make sure you say what you will do as well as what you have done.
Two pages should do this, any longer and you're in danger of waffling.
Needless to say everything you send to an employer should be immaculate both in content and presentation. Use good paper, check your spellings and grammar, then ask some-one else to do so. Your dad would be a good one by the sounds of things. Finally if the company invites you to visit them, dress appropriately, smartly in a suit. Be well groomed and present yourself as confident, think about your body language. You are selling yourself, you have make sure you conform to what the company wants.
 
Not sure I agree that no-one takes interest in hobbies. I wouldn't have got either of my jobs if it weren't for HOBBY. I was offered another one due to another hobby but I turned it down (too little money).
 
I agree with Isaac and have had comparable experiences. The last guy who hired me did so because I had mentioned in my CV I had sailed single-handed half-way around the world, and he would not even look at my degree when I produced it. I found out later that he himself had not even completed high school.
 
Keep it short, two pages is enough. I dont like hand-writen CV's nor do I like generic, downloaded from the 'net CV's. Im always impressed by a well writen covering letter, any spelling mistakes, poor grammer or just general rambling nonsense and its filed under B for bin.

Ive been on both sides, both as a grad trying for months to land a job and now as an employer. Qualifications are good, but loads have them these days, I got a 2:1 but so did alot of others. A degree shows what level you are capable of working at thats about it. Keep your hobbies very short and 'enhance' any team playing sports or activities you are involved in. Good luck
 
First impressions !

Send your CV in a good quality, A4 sized, thick brown envelope, also always use the cardboard backed type. They are slightly more expensive, will ensure that your CV arrives in tip-top condition and most importantly, because they are more difficult to fit into the average office waste paper bin, (usually needing to be ripped in two first), the prospective employer will keep your CV on his desk for longer. Use a printed Address label on the front ( placed exactly in the middle ) . Don't put a sender address on the envelope either, this ensures he/she has to actually open your envelope to see what it is and who it's from, basically you are trying to force them to read your CV

Use good quality paper to print your CV onto. I always use slightly textured (laid) Conquerer 100gsm paper in brilliant white. I have my CV on a floppy and if i ever need to send it out I get it printed at a local print/copy shop in town using their laser printer. I even ensure that the paper watermark is the correct way up ! (attention to detail).

Although I am not an employer myself, if anybody does send in any speculative letters or CV's for potential jobs at my workplace they certainly pass through my hands for comment or opinions, the first things that gets noticed are any obvious spelling mistakes, or glaring grammatical errors. It shows a lack of attention to detail and these CV's usually take the shortest route to the bin. As my own spelling, grammar and puntuation can be sub standard at times i have used a proffesional CV writing agency in the past to proof read and correct my CV. Most of my writing at work is wrtten in capital letters, purely for clarity, you soon forget where you should and shouldn't use capitals and even puntuation marks after a few years of this style of writing, hence getting the pro's in. 5 years ago I got my current job after using this service, a tenner well spent in my opinion.

Having a decent CV won't get you a job, it may well get you an interview though which is where you get the job. If you send in a shabby CV you will never get through that door, good luck......
 
Thanks, the paper thing may not be relevant as a lot of companies these days seem to ask for an electronic CV. Now I suppose I could be clever and create a CV website, basicaly a database driven website acting ad CV, but it still be breif.

Of course I need a paper driven one as well, I do have some high quality watermarked paper my dad uses for sending out quotes.

I get my mum to check through the CV, she used to be a medical secratary so her english and grammar is spot on. She got an A at O level.

I will probably produce a web based CV in C# ASP.NET and try and add some clever touches to this, this will prove I can do the stuff I say I do.

I am basicaly what you might call a technologist so paper and pen seems a bit old fashioned. Of course if the employers ask for paper versions via snail mail this what I will do.
 

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