atheists strike again
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The Devil
IHTFP
lbr
monkey boy
No, of course not. Very good point - it would be fallacious to attribute all actions of atheists to atheism.
The Devil
IHTFP
'IF' those employee's who work at the Rehabilitation Camp who tortured Liu Jie are 'Party Members', i would assume.. they would be atheist, i believe all Communist PM's are supposed to be , and i'd doubt they'd secretly practice a faith.. ? :MILD:
The Constitution, as revised in 2004, still rigidly states "Chinese people of various ethnicities will continue adhering to the people's democratic dictatorship and socialist path under the leadership of the Chinese Communist Party and the guidance of Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong's ideology, Deng Xiaoping's theory and the important thought of the 'Three Represents'…"
Religious Traits of the CCP
The Basic Forms of a Religion The Corresponding Forms of the CCP
1 Church or platform (podium): All levels of the Party committee; the platform ranges from Party meetings to all media controlled by the CCP
2 Doctrines: Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong's Ideology, Deng Xiaoping's Theory, Jiang Zemin's "Three Represents", and Party Constitution
3 Initiation rites: Ceremony in which oaths are taken to be loyal to the CCP forever
4 Commitment to one religion: A member may only believe in the communist party
5 Priests: Party Secretaries and staff in charge of party affairs on all levels
6 Worshiping God: Slandering all Gods, and then establishing itself as an unnamed "God"
7 Death is called "ascending to heaven or descending to hell": Death is called "going to see Marx"
8 Scriptures: The theory and writings of the Communist Party leaders
9 Preaching: All sorts of meetings; leaders' speeches
10 Chanting scriptures study or cross-examination of scriptures: Political studies; routine group meetings or activities for the Party members
11 Hymn (religious songs): Songs to eulogize the Party
12 Donations: Compulsory membership fees; mandatory allocation of governmental budget, which is money from people's sweat and blood, for the Party's use
13 Disciplinary punishment: Party disciplines ranging from "house arrest and investigation" and "expulsion from the Party" to deadly tortures and even punishments of relatives and friends
Religious Traits of the CCP
The Basic Forms of a Religion The Corresponding Forms of the CCP
1 Church or platform (podium): All levels of the Party committee; the platform ranges from Party meetings to all media controlled by the CCP
2 Doctrines: Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong's Ideology, Deng Xiaoping's Theory, Jiang Zemin's "Three Represents", and Party Constitution
3 Initiation rites: Ceremony in which oaths are taken to be loyal to the CCP forever
4 Commitment to one religion: A member may only believe in the communist party
5 Priests: Party Secretaries and staff in charge of party affairs on all levels
6 Worshiping God: Slandering all Gods, and then establishing itself as an unnamed "God"
7 Death is called "ascending to heaven or descending to hell": Death is called "going to see Marx"
8 Scriptures: The theory and writings of the Communist Party leaders
9 Preaching: All sorts of meetings; leaders' speeches
10 Chanting scriptures study or cross-examination of scriptures: Political studies; routine group meetings or activities for the Party members
11 Hymn (religious songs): Songs to eulogize the Party
12 Donations: Compulsory membership fees; mandatory allocation of governmental budget, which is money from people's sweat and blood, for the Party's use
13 Disciplinary punishment: Party disciplines ranging from "house arrest and investigation" and "expulsion from the Party" to deadly tortures and even punishments of relatives and friends
aahhh I see where you are going now - state atheism! So you are trying to align atheists with negative activities of a marxist regime. Good luck with that. You'll be saying Stalin was a bad man because he didnt believe in god next.:S
Why draw parallels where they don't exist?
Why draw parallels where they don't exist?
The Devil
IHTFP
It's well-known that Stalin was a bad man because he had a moustache.
Tom got the blame, but it was a shifty little mouse all along, no doubts no distortion, call a spade a spade ( not being derogatory ) etc etc.
MY Point (i illuded to it) would be.. that any structure that determines the course of mankind has religion at it's foundation, it existed before it was named, and as any rule, only needed a book of words to adhere to.
MY Point (i illuded to it) would be.. that any structure that determines the course of mankind has religion at it's foundation, it existed before it was named, and as any rule, only needed a book of words to adhere to.
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Well spotted! Unless I'm very much mistaken, which I don't think I am, that is the point of the thread.
Tom got the blame, but it was a shifty little mouse all along, no doubts no distortion, call a spade a spade ( not being derogatory ) etc etc.
MY Point (i illuded to it) would be.. that any structure that determines the course of mankind has religion at it's foundation, it existed before it was named, and as any rule, only needed a book of words to adhere to.
The structure that you allude too is called society. The problem with religion is that it trys to set pathways for society to follow. They all have their own rules to the game, or 'book' as you say. Some of those rules work very well. Many of them are plain daft and anti women anti freedom, anti etc etc.
Is religion the cause of societies problems? Some of them yes but not all. Is religion the wrong path for society to take? IMO yes. We are all part of society and we all have an important part to play, lets not waste time/effort on the 'books' that malign our society, we have far too many other worries (flu, crime, politics, man u winning the title, leeds not winning the play offs, etcetc).
And I thought that maoism was a religion... How silly of me.
as i said... " any structure that determines the course of mankind has religion at it's foundation "
the structure i had in mind, i'll call it 'system/state', determines the course of...society, so then, "the similarity between 'system/state', as with 'religion', is that they both set pathways for society to follow, some are ok, some abhorrent, two peas in a pod they exist separately, but live in each other's pocket, the root needs to be struck for both as plucking one would leave the other.
The system/state doesn't offer one eternal life as the book does , though that eternal life is freely given to the state by the people either by compliance or mandate.
Faith lives without the book, freedom without Law.
I agree up to a point and I think we are agreeing from different angles if that makes sense. It also reminds me of a question I put to someone once "do your morals come from your religion?" - they answered "yes".
I decided not to pursue the conversation any longer ( twas a family member and I didn't want to challenge her on a point of view that is very important to her) - IMO you are better positioned for morality if you don't have a religion - no 'baggage' so to speak.
I digress.... regardless of my personal view and that of any other atheists (of course can only speak for meself) we are doomed forever to suffer the religious that plight our societies. The sheep need herding and want to be guided. Democracy in this case also means that the leaders of our world are forced to be shepards, even when this weakens their ability to build a free society.
How do we extricate religion and begin focussing on society based around ethics and morality free from the curiosities/bigotry of religion? Quick answer...impossible without starting afresh.
My favourite TV quote (with a scots accent) "we're all doomed!"
I decided not to pursue the conversation any longer ( twas a family member and I didn't want to challenge her on a point of view that is very important to her) - IMO you are better positioned for morality if you don't have a religion - no 'baggage' so to speak.
I digress.... regardless of my personal view and that of any other atheists (of course can only speak for meself) we are doomed forever to suffer the religious that plight our societies. The sheep need herding and want to be guided. Democracy in this case also means that the leaders of our world are forced to be shepards, even when this weakens their ability to build a free society.
How do we extricate religion and begin focussing on society based around ethics and morality free from the curiosities/bigotry of religion? Quick answer...impossible without starting afresh.
My favourite TV quote (with a scots accent) "we're all doomed!"
The Devil
IHTFP
I know what you mean. I have a more optimistic view, though.
