Bach's violin partitas

So many interesting issues!

First let me clarify: I have nothing at all against a good Bach performance on the piano. I love Kempff's versions of chorals, for example. But, in general, I think pianists allow themselves too much freedom and as a consequence Bach's music is not rendered well. A prime example being Gould, of course. I totally agree with Marc here: a krumhorn rendering of the art of the fugue is all right with me, and I would love to have a good string quartet version of many WTC fugues.

I have been listening to Szeryng's S&P. it is marvelously good. The interpreter tries to make himself invisible, so that the music flows. That does not mean that there is no emotion, but only that there is no personal emotion. I think you may say the same about Maurizio Pollini's versions of Beethoven's late sonatas.

At the other extreme there are musicians such as Milstein, who uses the music to express himself. I find no problem with that as long as I understand the emotions he is expressing and as long as these emotions do not go against the music (as they do in Gould's case, but not, I think, in Milstein's case). Another example might be made by opposing Guenther Wand and Leonard Bernstein.

Thinking about HIP performers I would argue that Gilbert is a prime example of Pollini- or Szeryng-style; and that Leohardt is a good example of Milstein- Bernstein-style, although in a completely different mood (and here I must say that I hate the Bernstein emotions, technicolor and very pop oriented).

Do I think there are limits to the extent of personal expression? Not really. Some are out of bounds when they actively go against the music (if someone were to play the 1st movement of the Beethoven 5th Symphony adagio e cantabile, or the toccata in d on the flute 8' and the tremulant, for instance). But this is very seldom done (except by Gould, again).

That is why I say that it is so difficult for me to pass a negative judgment on an honest player: as far as he does not go actively out if his way in order to be different (that is what I call being dishonest) and that he feels what he is doing to be the right way (that is what I call being honest) I can only disagree with his or her view. Now no one can criticize anyone because of a disagreement.

 

And this one made me smile.

You got me here.

Long live Glenn Gould, the musical clown! (R.I.P.)

 

I experience the same.
Though sometimes I can be in a rage :grrr:

Maybe the last time I got 'angry' was when I listened to Bach's SJP with Van Veldhoven, and (IMHO) he ruined the tenor arias because of an unexpected lack of understanding (he said self-opinionated).
But in the end, it's mainly a bit of sorrow, out of disappointment. These things happen in life, you knöw.

About Szeryng: I haven't listened to his S&P's for a long time, but in my remembrance they weren't all that fluent, compared to some others. (And that's maybe why I liked him.)
But I guess that you know more recordings & violinists to compare with. If I'm in the right mood, I will listen to Szeryng again. Dear me, that could be an enervating session!

 

:slayer:

YEAH!!! Lenny ROCKS!!!

No doubt, Lenny was fond of attention.

:groupies:

But I like (for instance) his Fidelio and his Mahler recordings very very much. Can't say anything about his Bach Sonatas & Partitas though. Did he record an arrangment on a Moog synthesizer?

:chop:

Then Maxwell's Silver Hammer (knife) should .... his head.

 

I am not that knowledgeable in this repertoire. Pe-zulu is the one that knows most versions, I think.

Szeryng recorded the S&P twice, I think. I am referring to his DG recording. The intonation is not impeccable (or else I am too used to odd tuning systems), but is better than most, and the sound is very beautiful.

Also, when I say that he tries to present music instead of his inner turmoil, I don't mean to say that his reading is 'soft' or 'lacking in character'. It is only very respectful of the music, but then the music is very passionate.

I hope you'll find the time to listen to them. Then we can disagree once more

To PE-ZULU
I never listened to the Walcha-Szeryng sonatas. I tried to find them but I failed. There was a nice recording in the net of Walcha studying one movement: he sings the violin part and plays the rest. Rather interesting.

 

His (Bernstein's) Carl Nielsen Symphonies are excellent IMO, although a bit mondane.

Some time ago I got by chance his first LvBeethoven symphony set from New York at a sale. A very pleasant surprise and much more classical in conception, than I had expected.

 

Well, well, I am going to acquire them.

I do not own them. I was fortunate to hear most of them, but did not get them. Instead I got Suk / Ruzickova and Lautenbacher / Galling. In both these there is a not quite ideal reversed relation between the violinist and the harpsichordist compared to the Szeryng / Walcha set, - the violinists Suk and Lautenbacher shining over the harpsichordist.

 

(Don't get me wrong though: from what I remember, I thought Szeryng/DG was very good!)

Yep. I had a similar experience when listening to this box set.



Let's be fair: the top orchestras in Vienna and Amsterdam already had played with fine 'classical' conductors in Mozart, Beethoven et cetera, and they really loved Bernstein and most of his interpretations. To the Dutch (former) violinist and (now) conductor Jaap van Zweden he has been the most inspiring musician ever (for what it's worth).

 

Bach was told often to play his S & P for solo violin on keyboard, and there are also surviving contemporary keyboard arrangements of some of the works.
This has inspired some of the musicians of to day to transcribe these works for harpsichord and the (not unexpected) most successful of these, is IMO Gustav Leonhardt, who fortunately has recorded his transcriptions.

One example, Sonata BWV 1001:

Adagio:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/n2ki5yj2353/01 - 1 - 1001.mp3

Fuga:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/tjh2rouamnf/02 - 2 - 1001.mp3

Siciliana:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/khtmwiztzem/03 - 3 - 1001.mp3

Presto:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/nhvfykmjdly/04 - 4 - 1001.mp3

 

Anybody heard Ibragimova's Partitas? I was just wondering why I couldn't fid them mentioned here. I haven't, but they seem to get good reviews.

Also and off topic - is there a recommendable recording of Bach's double violin concerti; I have the Perlman recording and the Podger/Manze effort, but whilst the former is beautiful it is also somehow dated, whilst the latter I find too energetic and thus awkward. Any help here?

 

I have not heard Ibragimova, but considering the reviews she ranks high on my CDs to purchase list.

Recently I parted with the Perlman recording (Barenboim conducting!!) of the Violin concertos, finding it too romantic and - yes, dated. But I keep my recordings with the Oistrakh's and with Erlih/Merckel even if they are dated, but they are not romantic.

How do you want your double concerto played? HIP? With or without period instruments? Non -HIP? Recordings exist which can satisfy any taste.

 

The Oistrakhs are lovely as well, I would call them romantic but heck - whats wrong with a bit of romance!. What am I after? A fair question, I don't know what I am after, sometimes I like the ebullience of for example Alessandrini and Concerto Italiano as in their Brandenburgs, other times I prefer the almost academic beauty and perfection of Gardiner's performances, and especially when they get that internal fire as in BV161 performed in Santiago de la Compostela. I realise I am comparing like with not-like but I am attempting to express what I enjoy.

I haven't heard the Erlih/Merckel, so will have to scout around. Any other suggestions, and anyone else out there heard the Ibragimova yet?

 

Yay! A forum for the Bach obsessed. My happy day. Hello to you all!

 

Knowing almost fifty recordings of the double violin concerto my recommendations would be:

Pre authenthic:
Schneiderhan/Baumgartner (DG Archiv) Strict, magistral, only mono BTW.

HIP style but modern instruments:
Akiko Suwanai (Universal Japan), swift, elegant, brilliant.

HIP, period instruments:
Sigiswald Kuijken (DHM), calm, dark, eloquent.

 

pe-zulu,
Crikey! Fifty recordings. Respect, and thank you for your recommendations. I will try to hear these all at the earliest moment. Given my enjoyment of Sigiswald Kiijken in general I might place an order on Amazon right away, to supplement my recent order for the Mullova partitas (thanks to other recommendations on here) which are currently playing as I tap this in. Too early for any sensible comment from me on this latter performance though.