Bad language in pop/rock

[tones]

I was motoring along yesterday and turned on the radio. It was tuned to one of the local pop stations (my daughter was previously driving the car). A new song started, by Metallica. Nice little bit of percussion, solo singer. And then the singer sang something like (can't remember exactly):

F*** what you said, it don't mean s*** to me

followed by a string of other lines also commencing with the same Anglo-Saxonism.

Now the word has been in circulation for a lot longer than I've been around and I heard plenty of it in school, but in spoken language it is ephemeral, it's there and it's gone. And I know it's used a lot more in books and films to give a greater versimilitude of real life (although some writers and producers seem to be vying for the Perspex Wicket in Douglas Adams's "Life, the universe and everything" (for the most gratuitous use of f*** in a screenplay)). However, to trivialise it in a song and to repeat it endlessly seems to be a step beyond that, and in my opinion not a good one.

Or, as I stagger towards the end of my sixth decade on the planet, am I a hopelessly old-fashioned fuddy-duddy who really should stick to classical?

 

[bottleneck]

As a father of a 4 year old, Im more bothered by whats allowed on the TV pre 9pm watershed.

Early evening each day, you will have people punched, stabbed, shot, women hit, raped, war coverage with dead bodies... to name but a few.

Quite when this became 'acceptable daytime viewing' I dont know.

Are parents really expected to change channel every few minutes to avoid this?

The odd swear-word in a heavy metal song/rap song doesnt seem nearly as intrusive to me..

 

[julian2002]

tones,
personally i take great pleasure in a well constructed and delivered epiphet. however, and to tie in with what chris is saying, my biggest worries are the pinks, christina aguilara and britneys of the word. these artists are specifically 'manufactured' to appeal to pre teens and yet they are presenting very adult concepts, lyrics and images which are imho not apropriate for that age group.
my other concern is the total americanisation of childens entertainment, but that's a different beef.
cheers



julian

 

[sideshowbob]

I think you're supposed to be shocked by pop music if you're over 40. That's its job. It's important for teenagers to have the feeling they're listening to something their parents disapprove of, helps develop their sense of independence.

Sadly, the most shocking thing about pop music nowadays, on the whole, is how utterly bland it is.

-- Ian

 

[TonyL]

Where did swearing actually start in pop / rock? What was the first record to contain the word f***? It would be interesting to place what is happening now into a historical perspective. The earliest I can bring to mind is the quaint phrase ââ'¬Å"Kick out the jams motherf***ers!ââ'¬Â from the MC5's phenomenal 1st LP in 1969, though I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Dylan hadn't beaten them. I believe the MC5's label Electra freaked when they realised what was on the record and actually pressed an edited version for a while, so it was obviously still pretty big news back then.

Tony.

 

[sideshowbob]

Good question. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it doesn't turn out to be some blues record from the 1920s, some of them were pretty near the knuckle.

-- Ian

 

[PeteH]

Originally posted by bottleneck

Early evening each day, you will have people punched, stabbed, shot, women hit, raped, war coverage with dead bodies... to name but a few.

It is curious how violence seems to be much more acceptable to the media and society in general than swearing or (especially) sex between consenting adults. You can show people shooting each other and that's fine, but if you show a nipple or say F**k you're in trouble - I'd hazard that this is probably the opposite way round to what people are more likely to experience in their daily lives.

 

[tones]

Originally posted by TonyL
Where did swearing actually start in pop / rock? What was the first record to contain the word f***? It would be interesting to place what is happening now into a historical perspective. The earliest I can bring to mind is the quaint phrase ââ'¬Å"Kick out the jams motherf***ers!ââ'¬Â from the MC5's phenomenal 1st LP in 1969, though I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Dylan hadn't beaten them. I believe the MC5's label Electra freaked when they realised what was on the record and actually pressed an edited version for a while, so it was obviously still pretty big news back then.

Tony.

Don't know about recording, Tony, but I believe the Doors used a lot of, er, interesting language when they were still part of the "underground" and before they hit the popular big-time, back in the early 1960s. This was in the context of small clubs and presumably non-shockable aficionados.

 

[tones]

Originally posted by sideshowbob
I think you're supposed to be shocked by pop music if you're over 40. That's its job. It's important for teenagers to have the feeling they're listening to something their parents disapprove of, helps develop their sense of independence.

Sadly, the most shocking thing about pop music nowadays, on the whole, is how utterly bland it is.

-- Ian

I've made this very point myself, Ian (in the Led Zed discussion). AS to blandness, I really can't comment as I rarely listen to any. The universes of pop and my musical tastes rarely come into collision, and judging by this latest encounter, thank goodness.

 

[amazingtrade]

I personaly don't like swearing in pop music either, I can't stand all the american rap music which is full or swear words. Simon and Garfunkel didn't need to use the F**k word to get thei rmessage accross, neither did the Beatles.

I am only 21 and don't find it at all shocking, I just find it un original and bland. Having said that there are a lot of good indie bands coming through lately.

 

[nsherin]

Agreed - I don't mind the odd word used in context, but not when it's every 4 seconds in a track. Is it really necessary? Obviously for some, it is.

 

[SCIDB]

Hi,

I generally don't mind bad lanugage in songs. A lot of the time it does add to the context and atmosphere of the song. Certain words are less offensive than they used to be. Also certain words are now in popular usage & can have more than one meaning.

The word crap was considered very vulgar but now it's in every day usage to mean excrement or to note the worthlessness of something. Other swear words used to enthuse the points & phrases.

If you felt really annoyed, you can say I feel f*cking annoyed to get across how bad you are feeling.

Pop music is aimed at young people. In a way, changes to suit trends & fashions. From the days Rock & Roll hitting the mass market (& even before), it had an ability to shock the elders & the estblishment. As fashions change, the mavericks of the scene become the estblishment. They don't shock any more.

Swearing, using risque language, lyrical content, dressing differently, dancing differently were ways of "shocking" people. To be truthful, it's all part of the music business of selling records, songs & building up an image & fan base.

Sadly, the most shocking thing about pop music nowadays, on the whole, is how utterly bland it is.

Having listen to a lot of pop music (for work & pleasure), I sometimes wonder this. In some ways, general pop music today is no worst than 10/15/20/25/30 etc years ago. In any era there are songs which stand out & depending on your outlook these will vary. One of the downsides of songs in the pop field is that it's hard to come up with something totally new & original. A lot of songs are not that original but are still enjoyable.

Simon and Garfunkel didn't need to use the F**k word to get thei rmessage accross, neither did the Beatles.

It depends what message they are trying to get across & to whom. And also how effective you want your point to be.

If you want to tell people about social protest, bad conditions, unfair justice and get you point across quickly, you would use stronger, more ear catching terms and actions. If you want to highlight certain aspects of peoples life styles, a go way is to use strong laungage.

I couldn't see either Simon & Garfunkel or the Beatles kicking up a fuss like NWA with regards to police brutilty & police treatment.

I personaly don't like swearing in pop music either, I can't stand all the american rap music which is full or swear words.

A lot of people seem to like it or don't mind it. Hip hop/ rap is a genre which people have tried to ignore. It has gone from being a style of music that was popular in New York to a wide wide multi million industry in less than 10 years. One part of this has been the rise of Gangsta rap. This appeared around the mid 80s with people like Ice T and within a few years it was big league.

Early Gansta rappers were telling it like it is. They dealt with real life issues with tough words to get the point across. They dealt with violent society that they live in. They told about the outlaw lifestyle of sex, drugs & violence that is most inner cities in the USA.

This sort of rebel music did find favour with rightly or wrongly, with the white middle classes which helped it to get big pop chart sales. This inturn has lead it to filter into the mass market where people like Dr Dre & 50 cent can rub shoulders with people like Bono & Kylie Minogue. People buy one won't batter an eye lid to buy the others.

Add to this, the rise of alternative rock styles and you have a number of songs that have strong lanugage. A lot of chart music songs will have a radio version as well as the original version so you can get a non swearing version

One example of how far things have come, has been two recent number ones by Eamon & Franke. Both of the songs contain the use of the F word main times over. They are even in the title. (F*ck it) I don't want you back & F*ck U right back. These songs have been all other a lot of pop radio stations & number one both sides of the pond (UK & US). The censored versions do get featured the most but you are under no illuution what has been bleeped out.

I suppose swearing is just another part of communication and it can sell.


SCIDB

 

[Uncle Ants]

I have no problem with gratuitous swearing in records per se, however I don't think they should be played on the radio (or if on a video on the telly) before the 9 o'clock watershed. Same applies to violence and sex frankly.

As to the Metallica song - Well the problem with the swearing hear is that its just a dumb, rubbish record to boot. I suppose I have a lot less of a problem, if it seems to serve a point.

PS. I know Lennon used the F word in Working Class hero - that'd be about 69 I think. and it served a purpose - it was the only use of the word in the track and it really did empahasis his point (it must have really, REALLY emphasised his point in 1969)