Bake-off Revisited

you only discredit your own efforts by making simple methodological errors ......as pointed out to you on the other forum.

If you can't hear cables .....thats ok
no skin off my nose ...

I'm not trying to convince you otherwise...

I'll happily leave you in a state of ignorance...... if you allow me my state of delusion/actuallity....

but your telling me what I heard...even though you were not there . In fact your telling everyone who was present they were wrong and just imagined what they heard ...some sort of mass hallucination. Sounds to me like you need to take a few deep breaths before you go round telling people who you don't know, what there hearing .....

As to your ideas ...not to put to fine a point on it lets just say simplistic. You need to listen to any cable/ amp/ powercable /cd player etc in the position in which you intend to use it ..rather than introduce a shed load of other factors that can effect the perceived sound.

You should also bare in mind that just because something has a huge price tag does not means its any good.

You'll be telling us next that all amps sound the same !

 

The other references....

just look at the sample size

sorry is it a joke ?....can't possibly expect to be taken seriously

look at this !

http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_vid.htm

 

and the second reference ......

any who attempts to listen to audio differences in a room stuffed with parasitc vibration devices has to be barking !

 

Maybe we should post, two cables around the members,send them out with a Excel.file for scoring.

then each listener listens to them marks each cable on a simple better or worse than the other cable.


No variables, one answer, significance should be shown or not, very easily.

it doesn't account for individual systems or listener tastes, but if will provide an answer.

 

I think you have come on this forum just to stir it and get everybodies backs up. Well i do actually clean my ears regular ,more so than you no doubt. I do not need to do your evaluations as you say because i can hear for myself which is an audible change. In my case it is for the better. Perhaps it is not audible through the ears untill it travels to the brain, i dont know.
Perhaps you have something missing in there. Jim.

 

This is all getting a little silly now.
I for one didn't have too much interest in cables til recently. I had a set of cheap QED cables i bought with my first amplifier and when i upgraded it a few years later i was told by the sales assistant that to hear the benefit of the new amp i'd need a better set.
Never believed a word and walked out of there thinking it was BS.
Got home, rigged up the amp and was VERY happy with the improvement and even happier not to have wasted my money.
On coming to this forum(amongst others)and reading time and time again how much difference cables can make, i thought i'd give it a try.
Spoke to a few people and was pointed in the direction of a guy who makes his own and would, for the price of postage, send me out a set to try, no commitment. If I didn't feel they were for me or they didn't make an improvement i should just send them back-so i thought why not...nothing to lose .
Received the cables after a few days and luckily had 2 sets of outs on the cd player i was using so i was able to do a direct A/B without unplugging/messing around.
That way it all stayed fresh in my memory and what i found was the new cable was miles better in many ways. It wasn't a subtle difference it really was a vast improvement.
Now being sceptical, i did swap the cables around between amp inputs and cd outputs just to make sure what i was hearing wasn't because of faulty sockets or closer PCB tracks on different ins/outs.
The difference was still there and it WAS the cables that were the cause.
Friends of mine have also heard the difference with the cables hidden around the back of the cdp and amp with no way of telling which was which and no prompting from me.
As far as i'm concerned, thats enough proof for me.
Believe what you wish but you shouldn't tell anyone what they can/can't hear.
That's not for you to say

 

Exactly Andy same here i didnt believe myself. The other week i put my old cables back between my cd and amp and it was crap, no soundstage and muddled sound compared to the ag/au cables. The only way i can describe it is as if the sound had been cleaned and polished. Do you have Zanash's cables Andy? Jim.

 

Aye Jim Au/Ag too. Very good indeed.
Just a shame some people are too stubborn to try some.
Zanash has helped me and many others(yourself included)make their systems better, not only with cables but helping with mods,tweaks and advice. All things he gets no personal gain from.
For this he should be congratulated:beer:

 

You'll make him blush.

Perhaps Digital is sincere in his judgements, and as he say's can't hear any change. Zanash and a lot of others can tell the difference from a green penned cd to an unpenned one. Me i can't hear it. I'm not going to say they are wrong but is something going on in the brain like some receptors working for some and not for others. Ears are very much the same on all humans but the brain is totally uncharted and could be vastly different from person to person. Jim.

 

Can't really comment on green pen/lathe treated cds as i haven't had the opportunity to try them yet but i do like to keep an open mind.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion and Digitals is as valid as everyone elses. It's just the way he's put it across and his unwillingness to acknowlege others that's offended.
Still, if everyone agreed on everything, the world would be a dull place!

 

Hmmm

.
You fellows absolutely slay me! No matter how many times I re-state the fact that it wasn't just me who didn't hear a difference in the blind audition, you ignore the fact and keep up with the 'Digital can't hear it' nonsense...

Tell ya' what, send me a set of those Au/Ag cables that you have mentioned - and I will run them through another blind audition - this time I will not personally participate in the auditioning component of the session - so you can finally leave me out of your accusations... and then I'll post the numerical results here.

In the meantime, I again strongly encourage anyone else who is reading this (aside from those who have already voiced their opinions against it), to put on your own blind audition and keep track of the numbers involved - you'll be floored by what you think you hear vs. reality. When I did a few sighted auditions on my own, I was utterly convinced that I could hear a distinct difference - every time. But as soon as I couldn't see the cables anymore, it all fell to hell...

Andrew D.
cdnav.com
.

 

cables

has anyone done a test of a similar nature since this? interesting.......Some good points from both sides

 

Well still waiting from Digital aren't we. Has he got the AG/AU's yet and been blown away with the change.
Took my AG/AU's out and put my old ones back in and it wasn't long before they were out again. In simple terms the old ones were sh*te. Compressed soundstage in the middle of the speakers and what sounded like distortion on all frequencies. If nobody could hear this then they have something wrong with their hearing. With the AG/AU's back in lovely wide soundstage and crystal clear sound. Jim.

 

A cable, like any other component in a system, has to be matched. While I agree that a cable with lower inductance/resistance will usually sound better. I don't think a similarly designed OFC cable with the same conductor area will always sound inferior to a SPOFC, or a pure silver cable in EVERY system.

IMO.

 

Cables are system dependent ....in that if you have a low resolution system you will never hear any difference between cables.

That also applies to the hearing of the listener ...some peoples hearing is just not as good as others also hearing is age related. Fortunately i was able to have my hearing tested in the last five years and found that it was above average for my age ie the treble drop is still some way off.

Just because I can't hear things ...does not mean they don't exist it just means I can't hear them. In the same way Digital can't hear cables ..it doesn't mean Digital is right or wrong ..just that he can't hear it.

This leads us onto how people hear things .....a friend of mine could not hear the airport announcer on DSOTM track two , but once pointed out what to listen for they were able to hear most of the speech.....Would digital have said that the announcer did not exist and that everyone who cloud hear it was telling porkies ?

 

Of course

Others will hear a difference, but not necessarily relate a difference to an improvement - for example brown shoes vs black shoes (don't know where I got that from).

For Digital's sake, I just need to say that there are many different views on the forum, it's about as broad as you can get - especially on this topic. There's no consensus of opinion, or forum sponsored view.

Zanash helps a lot of people (often for free), and this generous behaviour is worth remembering.

Debates are always welcome, so long as they are friendly.

 

Hi,
First post here.
To my ears there clearly are differences between some cables, but not between others. I have heard these differences in my own system.
In my experience, cost is not by itself an indicator of how 'good' or 'different' a cable will sound. Indeed, I am sure some manufacturers dress up their cables in fancy jackets and boxes and have a laugh with the price tag. Their cables may sound indistinguishable from freebies.
From the cables I have heard NVA are by far the best. NVA SSP interconnects and LS3 speaker cable is obviously differently (and superior) to freebie and bell wire.
DF

 

The Nva stuff is great ...but not that great. It can't compete with cables beyond its price point.

I recently heard a set of three month old soundpipes and in the system contex sounded fine ..until they were swapped for a set that cost twice as much. It was then clear that they had a rather dull presentation..in a full cyrus setup.

this is not deride the nva cable ..just to make the point you need to compare like with like...

As to cost I have to say Graham Nalty was spot on with his observation from the late 80's " the sound quality of a cable is in direct proportion to the cost of the conductor" . But there are cables that cost the earth and are not particularly good....so you must try before you buy.

my latest cable design has a conductor costing approx £12/g... its an alloy of platinum ...and sound far superior to the usual silver gold combination I use, but not in a hifi way ...in fact its a disappointment straight off, but when you swap it out, clearly it just sounds musical and makes other cables sound harsh and out of tune.

As always it buyer beware

 

Fair enough.
You've clearly got the more extensive experience and expertise! (£12/g. Wow. I'd like to hear that (would it not be more affordable to hire a permanent house band for your front room? )

It's the NVA SSP (rather than the standard SP) to which I'm referring.
I would ask to qualify your "can't compete with cables beyond its price point" with 'some cables', as I have heard more expensive cables (e.g. from Chord Company) that sounded, to my ears, inferior. (Apologies for the pedantry).

I'm surprised to read NVA SSP being described as "dull". Though I accept all this stuff is relative. Clearly I've been comparing NVA to 2 plastic cups on a string!
What are your feelings on the effects (if any) that active components can have on the sonics and performance of cables...?

Enjoying the forum by the way.

DF

 

there's always an exception !....who ever said chord cables were any good ?

it was the standard sound pipe ...not heard the other

actually .....you need to rearrange your final sentance to read what are your feelings on the effect cables have on the sonics and performance of active components.

this now make sense! as cables can make or break a system ...

if you want a listen pm me !