Balanced phonostage query

Hi all,

Just wanted to ask if anyone has any experience with using a balanced phonostage and whether you found the balanced mode a significant upgrade to the single ended connection.

I run my pre and power amp in balanced mode and found that connection do give a better sound than the single ended connections. However, I run my CD/DVD and turntable via RCAs.

I'm looking to try out the AQvox phonostage and run it balanced but while the unit is priced reasonably, once you factor in balanced tonearm cables and the extra balanced cables to connect to the preamp the cost is likely to double.

Any thoughts on the gain in performance using this phonostage as opposed to sticking with my Sonic Frontiers Phono 1 SE+.

Thanks
Alan

 

I'm not familiar with the specific phono stages you mention, but I've run my phono (Ayre p5xe) in both single ended and balanced (ins and outs) mode and I find that balanced is markedly better - lower noise floor, greater resolution, better soundstage and much better imaging, better instrumental discrimination.

Whether it's worth double the cost or not I guess depends on your system context and what else you could achieve with that money (both with your hifi or elsewhere in life ). For me, I had to buy a new termination box for my 'table and a new set of interconnects - not an inconsiderable outlay, but an easy decision for the benefits wrought.

 

lbr thanks for your reply.

The benefits that you described was what i found when I switched from single ended connections to balanced between my BAT preamp and Plinius amplifier.

My Sonic Frontiers is a tube phonostage and have been in my system for about 5 years, before that I used a Plinius phono stage and various internal phono cards.

Which phono stage did you have before the Ayre?

I don't change my system that often and probably could do with replacing my Ortofon MC20 supreme with a better cartridge.

Not sure whether buying a higher end cartridge or changing to a balanced phono stage will give me more benefits.

Cheers

 

Before the Ayre I had a Creek OBH and a Musical Fidelity X Can, neither of which are really comparable to the Ayre. However, I've used the Ayre in both single ended and balanced guise (it has both sets of inputs and outputs), so my views are based largely on that. I've also had a home trial of a similarly priced phono stage since owning the Ayre and found similar differences.

Me neither!

 

I am using the psaudio balanced unit and yes balanced is better - likewise for my cdp. Both have inbuilt volume control so I connect via a switch straight to the active crossovers. Big improvement over a pre. I used a TVC before. My system is completely balanced. With the PSAudio you dont need to change the tonearm wires as it constructs it from the earth cable and ground plus phono inputs.

 

The AQvox phonostage is excellent and well worth the investment, heard it once and was very impressed I think they do special conversion leads so maybe a reasonable route to look into
Both phono stage and cart can make a difference but the Cart can often have the bigger difference so maybe go with Cart first and when you have the money get the phonostage
Try and hear the AQvox phonostage first there is one dealer and they may do a sale and return deal worth asking as always best to hear in your own system

 

Johnj,

I've called the dealer and arranged sale and return trial for 14 days. They'll ship it out when the balanced adapter cables for the tonearm cable arrives from Germany. Looking forward to trying it against my Sonic Frontiers phonostage.

Thanks

 

Hi mtbguy68

The main advantage of using a balanced phono stage is that cartridges are balanced in their design( Stereo ones, not sure about mono). The balanced xlr set up also rejects noise, which as we all know is a killer for vinyl replay.

I think for you the big issue will be the difference between a valve phono stage and the solid state one you are going to try and are trying now). I have a Pass labs X ono which is very good , balanced out but no balanced in. I wanted to try a valve stage but found it difficult to get one(noise was a big issue). I tried the much loved and regarded Rhea and found it to be to noisy with my selection of cartridges. Though a collegue tried it in his rig and thought it was excellent. I eventually bought a Bat Vk10se, which is both balanced in and out. I use it balanced in using adapters a friend gave me recently. Not as good as getting your arm cable wired but better than the rca's. I think the most sensible step would be to get your arm cable wired with Xlr at some point.

A rhea might be worth trying (but you would need to see if its okay in your set up,before buying). I had to put it up to full gain with my Lyra Clavis, with way to much valve noise as the result.

The Cord Coral is balanced in. I have an old version of this which does the balanced in via four rca cables. I have not tried this but may get a cable wired this way. This is a nice phono stage but may be to solid state for you.

i wish you luck with the Aqvox, it has had a lot of good reviews but i suspect that your sonic frontiers may be more musical.

Regards D Louth

 

Hi D Louth,

I won't get the AQvox for a few weeks yet since the dealer is waiting for the XLR adaptor for the tonearm cable.

I suspect that your point about the valve and solid state will be an issue. I've had my Sonic Frontiers for about 5 years now and it has been back to the designer for major upgrades of components and also nos seimens valves. I've not found noise to be an issue with my unit. I've used a Denon DLS1 which is .15mv and an Ortofon MC20 Supreme and they have both been fine.

How do you like your BAT VK10se? I've had my BAT VK3i for about five years and was looking into upgrading to an Aesthetix Janus but read a lot about the noise issue and have postponed it.

May try the Rothwell balanced attenuators to see if it lowers the gain without affecting the sound.

Once I've demoed the AQvox against my Sonic Frontiers I'll post my experience.

 

Hi Mtbguy68

I like the Bat a lot but in all honesty it probably still hasn't run in fully. I got it back in June this year and I spent awhile playing around with 6SN7 valves for it(to date I like the Tung Sol new issue 6SN7 valves but I have quite a few to still work through). I used to use a valve phono stage with an Ear Head step up and i loved the sound so i wanted to go back to valves. The big issue with what I could try was noise. The Rhea didn't work for me as by the time I had enough gain, all I could hear was tube rush.

As I use a Bat pre power the Vk10 was a logical choice and like you I wanted to try an all balanced set up(Phono). So I took the plunge and am glad I did. The Vk10 has a Bat family sound and is very quite. Nice big soundstage,very open and detailed with excellent detail both in the macro and micro and yet it is very musical. I use the cart a VDH FROG GOLD through the valves and not the internal step up(however they are very good as well).

I think it will depend on what the noise floor of your system is and how much gain you need for your cart as to whether noise is an issue or not. I suspect in my current set up a Rhea might work better than thenwith (Twin Pathos Classic ones /Chapter Audio pre/power).

Your Bat pre is a good one but does seem to have more gain out than other Bat pres such as my Vk31se. I tried a Vk3i and found it suited the VK55 I had better than a Vk75 which I now have. The Vk31se suited the Vk 75 better. I kept the Vk75 and passed the Vk55 on to a friend.

I am not sure about the Rothwell's never having tried them but Andrew is a clever guy so might be worth it if used between a cd,pre etc but not I would say a phono stage. Would be very unusual for a balanced phono stage to have to high an out put to match a balanced pre but iI suppose it could happen.

take care. Regards D Louth

 

Let me know how you get on with the AQvox be interested in your views I use the Whest ps30r which has balanced outs but using it single ended.

 

Any further views on your AQVOX phono-stage?

I'm seriously contemplating one.

Did you find another UK dealer or is it just analogue seduction who stocks them?

 

I'm in the same boat, but shouldn't have left it so long. The price has just gone up again to £898.99. That's a £100 increase this year.

 

Alan .. since you live in London why don't you go to visit Whest Audio (Dephna House Suite # 307, 112/114 North Acton Road, London NW10 6QH) and ask James Henriot to try the PS30R that's balanced too?
Sorry Alan .. but I don't understand why a Londoner should buy a Aqvox when you have one of the best Phono designer in your Area!

ps: tell James I'm urgently searching for him (my name is Curio) , thanks!

 

I've just discovered this forum .... so, hi, everyone!

This thread is very relevant to what I am thinking about at the moment. I have an LP12/Ekos/Klyde/Lingo/Linto connecting to an ATC SCA2 pre-amp (which has two balanced inputs). The cartridge needs replacing; one option I am quite keen on, and will hopefully be able to listen to this weekend, is the Dynavector XX2 mk2.

So, my question is:

With a cartridge like the XX2 (or something similarly priced), would there be benefit in considering a balanced phono stage, to replace the Linto? I am particularly interested in the Origin Live "Ultra", which has balanced outputs, but have not been able to find any reviews thus far. (It should not be too hard to arrange a demo, though; I live within 20 miles of where OL are based in Southampton in the UK.)

Any thoughts or opinions (particularly on the OL Ultra phono stage) gratefully received!

 

Welcome here from an almost newbie too .. Vereina

The Dyna XX2 is a great cartrige Vereina .. I dunno where is located Southampton respect to London .. but I suggest you to visit Whest Audio too.
Mr. James Henriot is a great guy to talk about phono issues

 

Thanks, Arlequen.

The Whest PS.30R is certainly one of the boxes I would like to listen to, along with the Origin Live Ultra. (Where I live, which is not far from OL in Southampton, is only around 60 miles from London; there is also a dealer within about 30 miles who stock the Whest.)

I noticed a thread, from several months ago, in which one or two people commented that the PS.30R is superior to the OL Ultra (and other phono stages in that sort of price range). I would be most interested to know if anybody else has had an opportunity to compare the two and, if so, what they concluded.

Thanks again ....

 

"With the PSAudio you dont need to change the tonearm wires as it constructs it from the earth cable and ground plus phono inputs".

That's clever. Why can't more phono stages do that?

"I've had my BAT VK3i for about five years and was looking into upgrading to an Aesthetix Janus but read a lot about the noise issue and have postponed it".

Bit of a keeper, isn't it? Also considered Aesthitix kit from time to time but worry about service support and backup, along with the sheer size of the stuff.

Incidentally, this AQvox stuff is getting expensive. I thin kthese were around €5-600 when they came out a few years ago.

Have they sorted out the equalisation problems and use RIAA now, rather than that obscure "Deutsche Grammophone" curve? I've avoided german phono stages so far, for this reason.

DT

 

The problem with Aqvox is the balanced inputs .. they give you the adaptors for RCA but it isn't the same of a real balanced cable from arm to phono stage.
Apart this there is also a problem with load of the cartridge .. I read something about on Audiogon

The Whest Audio PS30R is a totally British design and manufacture and it has many gain steps from 40db to the ultra high 72db (plus more 4db if running balanced outputs) and to load the cartridge there are two soldering point for channel to solder the resistor (1/4 1/8 watt) you like .. so you can load infinitesimal value .. covering the whole cartridges planet :MILD:

I own the relatively new PS30RDT that's is a great improvment (also in price ) over the super good PS30R
I owned and tried many phono boards but nothing is comparable like the Whest sound

 

I think the Aqvox is currently on MKII status and incorporates RIAA equalisation, good point though I think the Deutsche Gramaphone would have put me off.

Arlequin. I know Whest make some well regarded products but the Aqvox retails at 899 (was 799 a few months ago) and the Whest at 1700. If I was looking at that price I think I'd try the Ayre KPx5e.

I want something that is fully balanced at both input and output, the Whest has balanced outs but not in.

I know balanced topology alone will not guarantee performance if the gain stages and equalisation is poorly implemented but I really want to see what difference it makes to my system. Maybe I'll try both and keep the one I like