'Best' speaker stands ??

[tones]

If the speakers can sway, then surely this will be within the audio spectrum since the drivers are moving in the audio spectrum and as the driver is pushed forwards, the cabinet will be pushed backwards with an equal force. Even if the speaker is swaying with a low frequency, wouldn't this movement introduce audible pitch shifts (similar to how a police car siren sounds different when travelling towards you than when travelling away)? They may only be slight movements, but surely these would be enough to colour the sound.

Heath

Heath, having done the sums, I don't think so. I assumed that the speaker was swaying 2mm every second and applied the Doppler calculation. A frequency of 50Hz will then vary between 50.00028 and 49.99971Hz. And if you can hear that degree of difference, my hat's off to you.

P.S. At the top end of the scale, say 16,000Hz, close to the threshhold of perception (unless you're a bat), the variation is 15,999.91 - 16,000.09. As I say, if you can pick up that sort of variation, you're pretty sensational.

 

[7_V]

If the speakers can sway, then surely this will be within the audio spectrum since the drivers are moving in the audio spectrum and as the driver is pushed forwards, the cabinet will be pushed backwards with an equal force. Even if the speaker is swaying with a low frequency, wouldn't this movement introduce audible pitch shifts (similar to how a police car siren sounds different when travelling towards you than when travelling away)? They may only be slight movements, but surely these would be enough to colour the sound.

The speaker won't be swaying with a low frequency.

The cabinet will, as you rightly say, be pushed in the opposite direction to the cone movement, with equal force. However, force = mass x acceleration so even if the speaker is suspended from the ceiling by a thread, the considerable mass of the cabinet will ensure that the acceleration (and distance moved) will be minimal. In practice, the interface between the speaker and the floor will reduce the movement still further (even with an air support).

If the frequency of cone movement was the same as the 'sway frequency' of the cabinet, a resonance would be built up which could result in significant cabinet movement. However, the 'sway frequency' is considerably below audio frequency so cabinet movement will be very low indeed.

Even so, in an ideal world, the cabinet movement would be absolutely zero. In practice however, the minimal movement that soft suspension (air-supports, superballs, etc.) might allow may well be less intrusive than the floorboard vibration that could be caused by close coupling (spikes).

It ain't easy. You've got to suck it and see but opinions about the flavour of the suck may vary.

For the record, in my own design, the mass of the Nonsuch 4 cabinet is massive compared to the tiny 2" cones used and I have avoided the issue altogether with the Little Awesome bass speakers as the cone is mounted vertically.

 

[The Devil]

Titian,

If you want the 'best' speaker stand available, then you must at least try Mana. Their products are diverse and often need to be specially-made, particularly so with speakers. Your best bet would be to contact John Watson direct or via the Marco forum. Good luck.


Edit: Typo

 

[michaelab]

a discussion relating to Mana that hasn't descended into farce...

Michael.

 

[Heath]

Thanks for that Tones. I hadn't done the sums, but it struck me that it could be a problem if the speaker was free to move.

Heath

 

[Heath]

The cabinet will, as you rightly say, be pushed in the opposite direction to the cone movement, with equal force. However, force = mass x acceleration so even if the speaker is suspended from the ceiling by a thread, the considerable mass of the cabinet will ensure that the acceleration (and distance moved) will be minimal. In practice, the interface between the speaker and the floor will reduce the movement still further (even with an air support).

Hi Steve
I'm not convinced that these forces will always be insignificant in relation to the mass of the cabinet (although that depends on the speaker design). If the speakers have large drivers, they're pushing a lot of air. Isn't it just the forces exerted by the drivers moving the cabinet that cause the vibrations in the floor when the speaker is close coupled? If it's ideal to keep the speaker cabinet still, wouldn't mass loading the floor/cabinet be a better solution to reducing the vibrations than putting the speaker on a springy surface? OK, the vibrations won't travel down to the floor on an air platform, but the movement is still present in the cabinet and the platform that it's sat on.

It ain't easy. You've got to suck it and see but opinions about the flavour of the suck may vary.

This is true - best to choose the one that sucks the least.

For the record, I'm using Mana Soundbases under my speakers on a springy wooden floor (just one per speaker - not a huge tower). They certainly have made a huge reduction to the vibrations passed into the floor and cleaned up the sound. My thinking is that they increase the mass of the speaker through close coupling, but the laminate board also has some shock absorbing quality. Are they the best speaker stand? I don't know, but they work for me - I certainly didn't feel any kind of platform was necessary when I had concrete floors, but they are a necessity now.

Heath

 

[The Devil]

Hi Heath,

I now have a phase 11 tower under each of my ATC monitors. The ports at the bottom of the cabinets are now at (seated) ear height. I know that the experts here will realise immediately that this is sick & wrong, wrong, wrong, but the performance of the speakers is amazing. There is no bass in the floor any more.

The P11 tower/speaker combo will sway considerably when pushed. Obviously this is just a party trick, and I don't spend much of my time pushing them about. In normal use, I don't know how much movement takes place, not much I suspect.

I have a suspended wooden floor, but Mana works very well on solid floors too.

 

[Philip King]

Bub, the image of people coming round to your house for a "push the Mana party" has put the first smile on my face today, thanks.

 

[wolfgang]

I am now even more confused with this stand issue. Life is too short and pocket is not deep enough to start a personel back to basic try-by-error experiments. Is there any chapter in book or website that some one could introduce the subject for me to refer to? Apology first of all but I am not keen on Mana. Purely due to the aesthetic issue.

 

[Heath]

I now have a phase 11 tower under each of my ATC monitors. The ports at the bottom of the cabinets are now at (seated) ear height. I know that the experts here will realise immediately that this is sick & wrong, wrong, wrong, but the performance of the speakers is amazing.

Hi Bub

Have you ever considered turning the speakers upside-down so that the tweeters are back at ear height? I'm not sure if it would make any difference. Personally, I don't care how sick and wrong people think my system is (I'm sure I break at least half a dozen rules of 'how to set up a system'), as long as it works for me, that's all that matters.

My tweeters are still well below my (seated) ear height - I reckon another four phases would bring them up to about the 'correct' height for me, but I'm in no hurry. After saying that, I am expecting a delivery from Anglesey tomorrow, which will take my system to phase 4 and speakers to phase 2 (on glass).

Heath

 

[The Devil]

I hadn't thought of inverting them. I honestly don't think it makes any difference at all. I can't hear a difference whether I stand or sit, although others have said that they can. Mind you, they also said some other things which led me to question their experience, motives and hearing!

Have fun with what will become your new system.

 

[Heath]

I am now even more confused with this stand issue.

I think the problem is that the choice of stand is dependent on the type of speaker, room, floor, alignment of the planets and probably another half dozen or so factors, including how it looks to you. I don't think there is a definite answer to what is the best speaker stand. As with most things hifi, I don't think you can get away from trying things in your own system. Personally, I tried a few options, went with the one that worked for me - if someone tells me there's a better solution or I should try something else, I don't care.

Apology first of all but I am not keen on Mana. Purely due to the aesthetic issue.

No need to apologise for not liking how Mana looks, the world would be a very dull place if everyone had the same tastes, although I would say that I think it looks much better in the flesh than in any of the photos I've seen, and it's certainly not imposing when it isn't stacked high like in Bub's system. I went for a silver Mana system rack, which I think looks 'lighter'.

Heath