Can We Hear Differences Between AC Power Cords?

merlin, "under test conditions" are the only conditions that matter. Under any other conditions all the same psycho-acoustic reasons that require blind tests in the first place become a factor.

Suggesting this test is as "equally flawed" as the HF+ is just laughable. The HF+ test was deeply flawed and produced no statistically significant results either way. It has only marginally more value than a fully sighted test done by a few of us at a bake-off (ie, no value at all). This test OTOH had an excellent methodology (it, it was a proper level matched ABX test) and it had enough volunteers and listening trials to produce statistically meaningful results had differences been discernable. The fact is the results showed an almost perfect 50/50 "chance" distribution - it wasn't even a close result.

If the findings of a test conducted as this one was suggested a difference was audible then I would have to accept that. The fact is there hasn't ever been a single valid test showing such differences to be audible.

Michael.
 
bob mccluckie said:
All the posters so far seem to believe that you cannot hear the differences between mains leads, well I can, and interconnects, stands and even spikes goddamit!

Bob
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I was just being ironic saying the only thing that matters are speakers and rooms,it's just this seems to be the way things are heading.Although I don't believe cables make huge differences,and these claims about Cd players sounding the same,amps etc,I'm then left at a total lost of why my system sounds so much better than the system I started of with,or am I just deluding myself and all a figment of my imagination?
 
adam - there are differences between amps and CDPs, allthough not all of them are as large as we think they are. Speakers and rooms have, without a doubt, the largest effect on the sound of a system.

Michael.
 
titian said:
Each cable sells for £5: anyone interested? :D
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I'll have em titian, not really a cable believer anymore (after that article), £5 is most i'd pay, especially as yours are so ugly.



SSSHHHH don't tell titian, i'll sell these and buy a high end system :D
 
michaelab said:
adam - there are differences between amps and CDPs, allthough not all of them are as large as we think they are. Speakers and rooms have, without a doubt, the largest effect on the sound of a system.

Michael.
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Michael, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that things sound different,be it CD players,amp or whatever,but the test I previously mentioned also tested speaker cables againt the freebies,cd players against discmans,valves against SS amps.under blind conditions ABX,they found the results the same,this leaves me to ask actually where do they think improved sound is coming from?Just the speakers?
 
analoguekid said:
not really a cable believer anymore (after that article),
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Really? Up until that post, I was begining to see a pattern emerging. Interestingly, even curiously, it seemed to me that people who believed cables made a difference also believed in other outlandish things. Namely, that the Beatles were no good. And that Rush were ... :)
 
Naahh, after my thirty years of trying, there is NO difference in sound between speaker cables and interconnects - and I've got truckloads of them. There is bugger all difference (if any) between the sound of CDP's and bugger all difference in the sound of most SS amps when played at exactly the same volume.
 
julian2002 said:
they say in the text that what you see has a HUGE impact on what you hear, and yet they have a BLIND test.
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What you see has a huge impact on what you think you hear - that's why we have a blind test. :) Remember, blind testing just means 'only using your ears', because, hey, it's all about the sound, isn't it?

julian2002 said:
do most here listen to their kit with it behind a curtain or perhaps more pertinently not know what theri kit consists of.
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Are you trying to suggest that the mains cable was prevented from working properly because the panel couldn't see it?
 
adam, I haven't read that Spanish article you mentioned yet. Will do it later. In the meantime the link below shows results of ABX tests of CDPs and AMPs where differences were detected (and some where they weren't):

http://www.pcavtech.com/abx/abx_data.htm

The only defence that "subjectivists" really have against a well run ABX test like the one that started this thread is that ABX tests by their nature somehow mask differences that are otherwise apparent. John Atkinson of Stereophile was quoted saying something similar in the preamble to the test. It's possible to prove that's not the case however. If you were to run an ABX test exactly as it would normally be run with the exception that each time you tell the listeners which cable they were listening to and they merely have to say whether they detect a difference or not then I bet that you'd get a result showing they could tell a difference. In that case there's nothing about the rapid swapping or short musical extracts or anything else that is masking the audibility of the difference. In fact, the only thing that could be "masking" the audibility is the fact that the cable under test is unknown which clearly can't be having any phsyical effect on the system.

Even believers must agree that if there is a difference it must be extremely subtle for it not to show up on an ABX test if things such as a 0.3dB level difference or a -3dB @ 16kHz low pass filter are almost unanimously audible in such conditions.

Michael.
 
michaelab said:
Even believers must agree that if there is a difference it must be extremely subtle for it not to show up on an ABX test if things such as a 0.3dB level difference or a -3dB @ 16kHz low pass filter are almost unanimously audible in such conditions.
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True, but then it's not difficult to show by measurements that most cables have a much smaller effect than -3dB @ 16kHz.
 
Christ Michael you do talk some bollox when it suits :D

1. How do you determine whether the results are statistically significant?

The test shows one thing. Under those conditions (which are not the ones that you listen to music under), the Groups found that they could tell there was a difference when switching from one to the other (although this was made difficult by the length of time taken to change) but could not tell which they preferred ;)

Any audiophile will tell you that sort of judgemnt takes time :D

So, audible differences exist - glad we got that sorted out :D I'm off to play with my elephant cock ;)
 
merlin said:
Under those conditions (which are not the ones that you listen to music under), the Groups found that they could tell there was a difference when switching from one to the other (although this was made difficult by the length of time taken to change) but could not tell which they preferred ;)
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Ah come on, you're not the sort to miss the point by quite that much unless you're on a wind-up. :)

In an ABX test all you're asked to do is identify whether X is A or B, not express a preference, which - of course - the participants totally failed to do. The results place a fairly restrictive upper limit on how audible the differences can be.

Maybe you'd like to suggest the mechanism by which these conditions 'not being the ones you listen to music under' affect the operation of the mains cable?
 
PeteH said:
Ah come on, you're not the sort to miss the point by quite that much unless you're on a wind-up. :)
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:D

Pete,

they sounded different. Everyone concurred to a greater or lesser degree. That's enough for me ;)
 
merlin said:
they sounded different. Everyone concurred to a greater or lesser degree.
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While they knew what they were listening to - once this knowledge was removed, the differences mysteriously vanished, or at least people thought they were still hearing differences but were strangely incapable of proving that they actually were. What we need to explain is why this should be... ;)
 
Notaclue.

As to being a cable believer, well don't believe evreything you read. Cables do make a difference IMHO.

Oh and the beatles were shite. Lennon(mainly and the real talent) and mccartney wrote some good songs, but as a band they were crap, the 3 canadian Amigo's on the other hand are the best band in the world.

BTW I am right and titian is selling me £25k's worth of speaker cable for a fiver(I hope :))
 
peter,
if what we see has a huge impact on what we hear (or think we hear - which as far as i'm concerned is the same thing) then not being able to see the system would effect how the cables work.
at the end of the day though if you're happy with the sound your kit makes then fair enough it seems a bit pointless to argue over the path we've each taken, as long as we are enjoying the journey.
all together now ohmmmmmm, ohmmmmmm, ohmmmmmmm
cheers


julian
 
Well as an aside I received a pair of freebie OFC interconnects with my new CD player.

Due to a shortage of Cardas, I used them initially but after a bit of listening I switched to the Cardas. The difference was fairly obvious to these ears ;)
 
Merlin, retract that statement at once, its scandalious your have 50+ lawsuits and countless dbt'ists baying for your blood and to be boiled in oil and battered with a large lumpy object.
Merlin, a man dangerious living life on the edge
 

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