Cleaning machine

I use a Moth MkII with fantastic results. I would advise that you practice your technique on an old LP that you no longer play, Max Bygraves etc (apologies to any Max fans.....) I've had my machine for about a month. The first few goes gave mixed results. I've now got my routine sorted and I can take a crackly old LP and transform it, its remarkable!

I use Moths own fluid sparingly and scrub using a Goldring 'exstatic' which is expensive, but does the job superbly when used with fluid. I found the supplied brush to be poor at getting deep into the grooves. I always rinse the vacuum pad before cleaning each side with purified water and remove any excess before vacuuming away. Unless you are applying far too much fluid you should not have any smearing at all, or as pointed out, have you diluted your fluid if supplied as a concentrate? Discs should be pristine when they come off your cleaner. Use just a few dashes per side, don't flood the surface. Its a waste and unessessary.

Good luck!


KXF

 

just about got it sorted now. yes i did manage to dilute the fluid . Only managed to scratch an old record i was using as a test. If the brush is not applied to the record across its width, but instead at an angle, then it scratches it. If you are stupid (like i was) and try and spread the fluid from inside to outside instead of around then it scratches the disk. Same as with any cleaning brush i supppose! Also I was not using enough fluid to cover the record so was trying to spread it around more than would be necessary with the proper amount and was therefore trying all sorts to get it to cover the record.
The smearing is on the run out grooves near the centre of the disk, and around the lead on grooves at the start. Stopping the vacuum and then starting it again for another revolution seems to sort it out.
Does rinsing off make that much difference?
Is the cause of a record that plays okay to start with but gets harsh towards the end just the record being knackered, or could it be static or something else. I cant really describe whats happens to the sound other than it gets harsh and the treble gets really confused as the record plays through. These records do not seem to be made any better by cleaning. I do remember on my old deck the problem seemed to apply to more records, and getting a new needle always cured it. But I dont fancy replacing the elys as its a bit more expensive and is only a year old so i cant see how it could be the problem. Any ideas

Cheers

 

have you checked cartridge alignment?

 

You really need to make sure that both your arm and cartridge are precisely set up. Some records do sound a bit worse on the inner grooves, even with a perfectly set up arm and cartridge. Inner grooves are harder for your cartridge/arm to track, but if you are hearing gradual deterioration across the whole LP side then it does sound to me like a set up problem. How clean do you keep your stylus? Making sure that it is as clean as possible on a regular basis is essential - LAST and Lyra do good stylus cleaners. But, you must first check your arm and cartridge are set up properly, otherwise you may be 'abnormally' wearing your cart and records, ie at an odd angle. Also, have you set your antiskate properly?

 

I built my own

 

Try Mick Seymour over on PFM for cartridge alignment guages and the like if you haven't already got them, as your description sounds like your cartridge isn't properly set up. For a fiver his alignment guage is a gem. Nice bloke too

 

Don't worry, it takes a bit of practice before you perfect your technique.

Never clean 'across' the grooves, you can cause groove damage this way, always clean in the direction of the grooves. Try placing the brush on the record as it spins before operating the vacuum. Remember you don't need to flood the surface of the record to get it clean.

Once you have brushed the fluid into the grooves, wait 30 seconds or so to let the fluid work and disolve any impurities. Then let the disc spin and be vacuumed at least half a dozen times each side before removing it from the machine.

You could try rinsing with purified water, but if you are using a good fluid and the machine properly, you should not really have to. I use purified water to cleanse the vacuum pad between each side, I find this is far more effective as debris from the disc may accumulate on the vacuum pad, even minute amounts, and you risk adding this to the next disc to be cleaned. I also rinse my scrubbing tool (Goldring 'exstatic') as well. Try spraying water on the vacuum pad between each side and operating the vacuum for a moment to let the clean water be sucked away.

If you are hearing distortion towards the end of a disc, this is because the inner grooves spin slower than the outer ones (LP's do not have constant velocity). The inner groove modulations occupy less distance and are more easily damaged/wear out. Its here that vinyl quality comes into play and can make a difference to the durability of the disc. This is also why 45rpm discs tend to sound better then 33.3rpm discs towards the end of a side. The alignment and condition of your stylus will also have a bearing here. It sounds to me that either your LP is worn or the stylus is. You should get a minimum of 500 hours from a diamond tipped stylus that has been cleaned often and been used with clean LP's, therefore you should roughly know how long you have left on it. They can last a lot longer than this mind you, siblance on vocals is always a good indicator, especially if they are not present if you play the same record on another deck.


Happy spinning



KXF

 

the deck was bought brand new and the guy in the shop fitted the cart in front of me, so i assumed he did it properly (it was bought from audio designs in exter and the guy there did seem like a bit of a legend!). I set the arm up according to his instructions and have not moved the deck since so (again im assuming here) i reckon its okay. If anyone can post details of how to set up and RB300 so i can keep it for future reference though it would be appreciated.
I think it must just be knackered records that causes the problem (bearing in mind lots of my vinyl is second hand and has probably been played on old tin boxes in the past which would not have been set up well and would have worn the inner grooves causing it to be harder for my cart to track now)

Also im probably wrong here but ive always thought stylus' were best left alone, so long as the vinyl is clean, and have therefore never done anything to it other than gently blow off any dust that collects

seems like i have a lot to learn.................................

 

Jimmy,

Why don't you order one brand new LP from this site www.simplyvinyl.com and use this as a comparison. Sound quality of pressings from here is very good, the vinyl quality is excellent (virgin) and reasonably priced. I've ordered about thirty LP's from this particular site in all and they compare favourably to original pressings of the same albums I already have or replaced.

Buying second hand LP's can be a bit hit and miss. The best places to go are usually car boot sales in my experience. Try not to buy anything that looks like Torvil and Dean used it for skating practice. If you pick up five for £5.00 and three are past it, thats still good value for money.

Happy spinning


KXF

 

Thats all I do!

(well I use a little brush to get the fluff balls off the needle, but thats it)

theres a petri-dish style needle cleaner you can get that looks neat, but personally I always seem to have a better use for a tenner..

 

I'm lucky enough to have a Music and Video Exchange at one end of the record buying spectrum, and a really good private owned record shop (called Really Good Records as it happens) at the other. In my experience Music and Video Exchange has a big selection, good prices but sells "music" on various formats, and doesnt care about the quality or originality of the disks. Really Good Records sells "vinyl" and its nice to have someone pulling out stuff which i will like and also to be told what pressing it is. As usual you get what you pay for - if its just the music you want big exchange shops are good, but for personal service from someone who clearly loves it, you cannot beat an independent store.
The best source of vinyl I've found is people's parents who have succumbed to the "vinyl is too much effort, sounds scratchy, lets buy a midi system" way of thinking and therefore like selling me their collections for peanuts. And now I've got the record cleaner, mildew covered records that have been in the loft for years aren't a problem!
I've given up on car boot sales as all the ones I've been to in my home town (Plymouth) have numerous copies of John Denver's greatest hits and bu*g*r all else!

By the way: kingsxfan - whats that tubebox like - I've seen a valve phono stage kit on the web for £120 and wondered if it will offer any benefits over my phonoboxSE???

 

So your sorted for LP's then

In my opinion the Tubebox (I've owned an SE) has a sweeter top end with a fuller bass. The soundstage is also wider and deeper. There is more air and space around instruments and voices. Overall it allowed my cart to show itself off a bit more!

You would probably find a valve stage sounds smoother than a solidstate design. Its all down to what you prefer really. I personally prefer the sound of valves.

If you bought the kit and did a good job of putting it together, you would make your money back if you didn't like it by selling it on "built". You have nothing to lose really except your time building the thing!!

Might be worth a shot. How old is your Elys cart?



KXF

 

it was all going well until just now - poured the bottle of L'Art du Son into what I assumed was distilled water - then read the label (why i didnt do this before i dont know), to find it was battery top up water, which i read isnt suitable. Why is battery top up or standard de-ionised water different to distilled water and therefore not suitable?

any ideas

 

didnt think of that - good idea!!!!

the elys is a year old either now or in january (i cant remember) so not that old although it does get a lot of use. Since i got the record cleaner its been playing about 5 hours a day.....