Hi fi dealers and the truth!

[themadhippy]

i like hifi salesmen stroll into shop,look intrest in a particler item,wait for sales speal, ask an awkward question,watch en squirm then leave ,even more fun can be had when they ask wot kit your using,my replie" em custom made to my spec:JPS:

 

[7_V]

Originally posted by wadia-miester
Speakers by the very nature are i feel the most personal of all the kit choices, so if you prefer a fast dynamic sound then maybe small metal coned drivers may be the answer for you, for other maybe not.

Of course you're absolutely right, w-m and there's some really good kit out there. However, take care not to come up with a sound impression in your head based upon your image of small metal coned drivers. When we can get around to arranging for you to listen to them you may find that they don't sound like small metal coned drivers at all.

Steve

 

[Tom Alves]

Originally posted by wadia-miester
Problem is Tom, you are only basing this on the gear you've heard (SBL's and others ).
A good number of us know what is actually available out available, and there is quite exemplary equipement out there, it may come from an unexpected source, given little more than cursery glance at first inspection.

Do me a favour. I've heard more than just Naim speakers and kit. Some of which was good and some wasn't. The Nonsuch do a lot of very good things, more than most.

So while I'm sure it took about the SBL's, that it self is not a tall order

Er, you haven't heard my SBLs , they are a rare beast and even you would be surprised. Actually even Naim would be surprised.

but if you are having a home demo, that man must doing a few things first, naimies are by the very nature moroase to anything other than Salisbury output.

Oh we are, but I'm not as flat as you think. Why can't I have it all?

Speakers by the very nature are i feel the most personal of all the kit choices, so if you prefer a fast dynamic sound then maybe small metal coned drivers may be the answer for you, for other maybe not.

I'll go with that.

Interconnects? surely not I though anything other than naim own was deemed death by impaling on Paul darwin's Fountain Pen .WM

I'm not retuning my active crossover so I'll have to make do with Steve's You should know by now that I'm not wedded to Naim, if something more to my taste comes along I'll consider it. :JOEL:

WM - The challenge is still there. Come and listen to what Naim can really do when the power is unleashed.

And Steve wasn't kidding. His speakers are special. not to everyone's tastes maybe but special non the less.

 

[Robbo]

Why can't I have it all?

My sentiments exactly. There's too much either/or in the flat v round earth worlds. A truly good system shouuld be able to do everything.

Robbo

 

[garyi]

This may have been answered but why is it called Nonsuch?

At a cusery glance it either says nonsence or no-sence.

eitherway the name is very negative, not positive.

so why the name?

cheers.

 

[Tom Alves]

This is a guess but isn't Nonesuch Park a stately home near Oxted?

 

[7_V]

Originally posted by garyi
This may have been answered but why is it called Nonsuch?

At a cusery glance it either says nonsence or no-sence.

eitherway the name is very negative, not positive.

so why the name?

Actually, Nonsuch Park and Nonsuch Palace are in Cheam, Surrey. They were built by Henry VIII for Anne Boelyn.

Nonsuch Park was the dog-walking haven of my formative hi-fi years, when I was listening to the original Quad Electrostatics and IMF Studio Monitors.

To me the name implies "nothing else like them" but anyway, what's in a naim?

Steve

 

[garyi]

There is an apparent story to that but I think its bullshit. The naim people were sat around a table trying to think of a name for the company and some one said well whats in a name?

And there you have it.

I don't know if its true.

I did not mean offence its just the 'non' part of the name is very negative, there can't be many companies trying to sell things with 'non' at the beginning of the name.

 

[7_V]

Originally posted by garyi
I did not mean offence its just the 'non' part of the name is very negative, there can't be many companies trying to sell things with 'non' at the beginning of the name.

I didn't take offence.

Hmmm, maybe this forum could attract ten times as many members if its name didn't start with "Zero".

Steve

 

[garyi]

Now that is a bloody good point

 

[Matt F]

Nonsuch is also a rather fine album by the band XTC.

:MILD:

Matt.

 

[wadia-miester]

Steve, question for you, how do you loose the inheirent intrinsic sound of a metal coned driver, to give a more natural feel ?, cabinet deisgn and 'x' over points can only do so much ?
metal drivers by the very nature are fast (low cone weight and improved acceleration properties, stiffer too), however I have always found them lacking in the mid band area, also they tend to be more 'colder and clinical', is the fact your using a multiple driver array helping this? WM

 

[7_V]

Originally posted by wadia-miester
Steve, question for you, how do you loose the inheirent intrinsic sound of a metal coned driver, to give a more natural feel ?, cabinet deisgn and 'x' over points can only do so much ?
metal drivers by the very nature are fast (low cone weight and improved acceleration properties, stiffer too), however I have always found them lacking in the mid band area, also they tend to be more 'colder and clinical', is the fact your using a multiple driver array helping this?

Good questions.

As long as a cone is acting as a piston its material doesn't effect the sound. As the frequency increases, the cone starts to enter break-up modes and in this region the material will have an effect. Contrary to some popular opinions, cone break-up is not something to be avoided at all costs but can provide excellent sound quality at higher frequencies, depending on the patterns of the break-up.

The frequency at which the break-up modes start depends on a number of parameters, including the diameter, thickness, hardness and contour of the cone. With the 2" cones used in the Nonsuch 4, the break-up frequencies start well above the mid-range and into the higher treble region. The 'colder and clinical' sound that you refer to may apply to certain aluminium drivers and these are probably larger drivers where the cone break-up starts at lower frequencies.

The Bandor 2" drivers have a superb sound throughout the audible spectrum but I don't leave it at that. I coat the cones, back and front, with 3 coats of C37 lacquer. This is light enough not to effect the lower frequencies (particularly as it doesn't soak into the material) but above the break-up point it gives a sweeter high frequency, to my ears.

I use multiple small drivers instead of a single full-range driver as, everything else being equal, a 2" driver will have a superior high frequency response to a 5" driver. As a consequence of this, the units are also faster over their entire spectrum. Bass performance is related to the combined cone area of all the drivers. Four drivers also have increased power handling and efficiency compared with a single driver and have lower distortion. This gives a smoother sound.

A horn loudspeaker will also decrease distortion by its increased efficiency leading to less cone movement for a particular sound level. However, horns have other colourations and require a larger enclosure than I was prepared to design for.

I hope that this answers your questions. I'm always happy to explain my design thinking.

Only one thing really matters with speakers and that one thing can't be realized by reading about the theory alone.

I look forward to letting the speakers do the explaining to you, w-m and, of course to Merlin. They really are little charmers you know.

 

[titian]

I am just wondering.....
just as the dealer's words and the reviews have lots of influence on what most people buy, I wonder how much does technical knowhow about HiFi, music and sound can influence someone when he hears music...

Do we really nead to understand what we hear?

 

[7_V]

Originally posted by titian
Do we really nead to understand what we hear?

You know those pictures that look like an old woman if you look at them one way and a young girl when you look another way? The thing is that you only see one or the other at any moment in time.

I wonder whether our listening works like this as well. We listen for a certain something in our systems. We hear this something and our mind amplifies this subtle something so that we hear it more and it becomes more important to us. While we're listening to this important something we don't notice the various other 'somethings' at the same time.

Perhaps reviews, technical knowledge and marketing put out by the manufacturers steer us in the direction of the somethings we're listening for.

Of course we have to listen for the somethings - a midrange to die for, bass that's controlled, fast and tuneful, foot-tappingly perfect timing, etc., etc. That's our game and part of our enjoyment. There comes a point though, if the system is up to it, that all the somethings disappear and we find ourselves listening to the music. That's hi-fi.

 

[GrahamN]

Originally posted by 7_V
...and we find ourselves listening to the music. That's hi-fi.

You do realise that's heresy on this board - it's well known you can have both


As for "Nonsuch" - there's also a rather good/adventurous classical/world/crossover recording label "Nonesuch" (not sure but may be part of Warners). Produces CDs of most of John Adams' and Steve Reich's work + artists like Kronos Qt, Bill Frisell, Youusou N'dour etc