Hi-Fi News - a pleasant surprise

My three lasting memories of Penta were talking to John Michell, Peter Belt and Robin Marshall.

John Michell had just introduced a suspension upgrade to the Gyro and took time to explain the benefits. He then reached into a drawer and, learning that I had recently purchased a Gyro, said 'here take a set of these and upgrade the deck but don't tell everyone'.

The Peter Belt experience simply demonstrated how easy it is to convince an entire room to spend money on snake oil.
I along with many others handed over cash for system enhancing tweaks that when away from the sales ambush proved to be worthless.

On talking to Marshall and asking for amplifier advice on something good enough for ES14s I was told to completely ignore all I had read, which was nonsense and buy the then current Cyrus 2 or Audioab 8000A as examples of products perfectly good enough for his speaker.
I seem to recall the MF B200 being also mentioned as good.
Of course a recommendation for any of these products would produce laughter from the flat earth press so supportive of Epos at the time.
 
Hi Simon,

What do people think about the option of AudioSmile exhibiting with a static display in the trade areas of a show, rather than a demo room?
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I think that, regardless of your good intentions, most people will view it as a cop-out; and in effect the 'lazy option', even if that was not your intention.

My first thought is that people need to hear the products so a demo room is the only option.
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Personally, although I understand and appreciate your other motives, I'd stick with that thought. The bottom line is that you're selling a product that people have to listen to, and so that's precisely what you must allow them to do.

Anyone with half a brain, a modicum of experience, and no agenda, can factor-in the limitations of demonstrating audio equipment in a hotel room, and so quite simply you have to give it your best shot and allow people to form some sort of opinion, in terms of how your speakers (and system) sound.

My experience is that if the equipment (and speakers) are good enough (and here I'm talking about how successfully they reproduce music), then this will shine through, regardless if some aspects of the sonic presentation aren't 100% perfect. Notice how I'm deliberately separating 'sound' from music ;)

Minimising costs, or rather maximising the return on your expenditure, is of course a laudable and valid goal (and of course essential in business). However, if you're going to exhibit at a hi-fi show, the most important consideration is to ensure that the majority of people visiting your room leave with a positive impression of BOTH the company you represent AND the products you're selling - and since you're selling audio equipment, I feel that being able to listen to it is therefore mandatory.

I think really, meeting the people who make the products and seeing / handling the item is the important part, and you can still do this in the display area.
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I guess that would depend on the individual. Whilst it's always nice meeting those who design the products, the bottom line for me would always be how they sound, as after all we're talking about audio equipment, not simply some object to be stroked and admired.

To be perfectly honest, static displays at shows annoy the shit out of me. I come to hi-fi shows first and foremost to listen to equipment being demonstrated and then, if possible, obtain the opportunity to speak with the designer(s) themselves and get a handle on what they're trying to achieve.

But without that first part of the equation, for me, the exercise is largely fruitless.

Therefore, simply meeting the designers and seeing/handling the products would not be sufficient for me to consider purchasing them. The proof of the pudding, as they say, is always in the listening.

YMMV :)

Marco.
 
the most enjoyable thing about the show, NO NOT THE BAR, ehem it is in my view not only to see the products, but to meet up with customers, dealers and course manufacturers, you can not tell via a "HOTEL" room 100% sound of equipment trying to create sound, many defects are present, one can only personalise an idea how it will sound under their environment,
 
you can not tell via a "HOTEL" room 100% sound of equipment trying to create sound, many defects are present, one can only personalise an idea how it will sound under their environment,
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Indeed, but I think you have to obtain the opportunity to do that in the first place, and you can't do so if the gear isn't plugged in and playing some music ;)

Marco.
 
No reason not to ride both horses.
Static display at some shows and dem room at others.

Of course some hotels have generally better acoustics.

We managed to get excellent sound at the London high-end show but really struggled with the room at Whittlebury Hall and I guess as more shows are attended you get a feel for the worth of running dems.
 
Hi Rob,

No reason not to ride both horses.
Static display at some shows and dem room at others.
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Problem with that is that static displays turn a lot of folk off, and so you simply wouldn't get the same amount of 'traffic' through your room as you would otherwise do if there were some music playing - and of course every person not visiting your room is potentially a customer lost.

I know that when I attend shows, time is often at a premium, and so when going along the corridors, if pop my head into a room and am confronted with a static display and a load of chit-chat, I'll simply head off elsewhere. My friends who are usually with me have a similar attitude.

For me, the only valid place static displays have at a show are in conjunction with a proper audio demonstration - for example where other items within a manufacturer's product range, not being demonstrated, are arranged on display for people to see, and thus enquire about.

But it must only be to supplement a proper demonstration, as people should always be left with an impression of how the kit sounds, and not merely what it looks like or how nice they guys were who made it....

We managed to get excellent sound at the London high-end show but really struggled with the room at Whittlebury Hall and I guess as more shows are attended you get a feel for the worth of running dems.
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Absolutely. It all comes with experience, and so the more shows you do, generally the better you become at overcoming the difficulties. I'm also a great believer in the importance of set-up, and also choosing equipment that is synergistically matched, which means having a clear idea well in advance, after thorough experimentation, what the system components are going to be.

Supporting the equipment demonstrated on proper stands, addressing the (inevitably poor) mains supply in hotels with a good quality filter/mains distribution board, and making sure in advance that you know what cables make the system 'sing', so that you arrive well prepared, as far as possible with a 'sorted solution', will give you a better than fighting chance of making a decent sound.

It's also a good idea to have the necessary tools with you to attempt a successful fix, if things don't go to plan. The room-tuning devices you used at one show are a case in point, although I'd be wary of using those simply as a 'bandage' to 'fix' issues which could be better addressed by attending to some aspects of system set-up.

It's certainly no accident that often the best sounding rooms at shows are those where the exhibitor has thought through all of the above with some diligence, and isn't simply interested in getting to the bar as soon as possible! ;)

Marco.
 
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I agree rooms which have no music playing are rubbish, but this would be in the large open 'trade area' as they call it. Where people have tables to sell records, cables, magazines, equipment supports and other stuff. So, there would be a lot of passing trade.

Ahhh... I can't think what the brand is, but Guy Sargent did it like this at the Bristol show. Is Guy here, how did it work out?

I think you might be right though Marco.
 
Marco1408 said:
Hi Rob,



Problem with that is that static displays turn a lot of folk off, and so you simply wouldn't get the same amount of 'traffic' through your room as you would otherwise do if there were some music playing - and of course every person not visiting your room is potentially a customer lost.

I know that when I attend shows, time is often at a premium, and so when going along the corridors, if pop my head into a room and am confronted with a static display and a load of chit-chat, I'll simply head off elsewhere. My friends who are usually with me have a similar attitude.

For me, the only valid place static displays have at a show are in conjunction with a proper audio demonstration - for example where other items within a manufacturer's product range, not being demonstrated, are arranged on display for people to see, and thus enquire about.

But it must only be to supplement a proper demonstration, as people should always be left with an impression of how the kit sounds, and not merely what it looks like or how nice they guys were who made it....



Absolutely. It all comes with experience, and so the more shows you do, generally the better you become at overcoming the difficulties. I'm also a great believer in the importance of set-up, and also choosing equipment which is synergistically matched, which means having a clear idea well in advance, after thorough experimentation, what the system components are going to be.

Supporting the equipment demonstrated on proper stands, addressing the (inevitably poor) mains supply in hotels with a good quality fliter/mains distribution board, and making sure in advance that you know what cables make the system 'sing', so that you arrive well prepared, as far as possible with a 'sorted solution', will give you a better than fighting chance of making a decent sound.

It's also a good idea to have the necessary tools with you to attempt a successful fix if things don't go to plan. The room-tuning devices you used at one show are a case in point, although I'd be wary of using those simply as a 'bandage' to 'fix' issues which could be better addressed by attending to aspects of system set-up.

It's certainly no accident that often the best sounding rooms at shows are those where the exhibitor has thought through all of the above with some diligence, and isn't simply interested in getting to the bar as soon as possible! ;)

Marco.
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All good points Marco.
It is however important to look at how visitors behave at shows, certainly the larger ones such as Bristol.
The big guys get to cherry pick the best rooms and the little guys often end up perched at the end of a corridor or up on the 5th floor.
Many people naturally go to shows purely to visit certain exhibitors and tend to visit the rest if they have time or stumble across them. I certainly do that these days and will have a shortlist - emphasis on short :)
So you tend to find the likes of Naim, Cyrus, Arcam, Rega will have rooms packed to the rafters while others have much thinner throughput.

For a small company there has to be emphasis on maximising return on what is a considerable spend - and that is around £2k minimum.

I should make clear that when we say static displays we mean taking a stand in the 'market' area of the show, close to the entrance where there is maximum footfall.
Not a room with a static display which is certainly a complete waste of money IMO.

My preference is for a mix, so perhaps a demo where a new product is released (or changed) and static to fill the gaps.

Then of course there is partnering with others and we tried that with Naim.
It certainly helped though not to the degree expected.

I'd love to be at every show as I'm sure would Simon. it is great meeting everyone and for me they are enjoyable and in no way hard work or a chore, but the cost of doing so makes this impossible for any small company, and even some of the larger ones in the current climate.

It's certainly no accident that often the best sounding rooms at shows are those where the exhibitor has thought through all of the above with some diligence, and isn't simply interested in getting to the bar as soon as possible! ;)
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Put the bar in the room ..... :guiness:

We did actually consider doing this once!
Now that would up the numbers :)
 
sq225917 said:
I very much enjoyed their exposure of HDtracks and Linn.

Shame they were a year late to the party, I pointed out HDtracks were full of crap over 12 months ago on computer audiophile.
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For those of us in foreign parts who don't get HFN, could someone summarise what the "exposure" was?

Edit:
RobHolt said:
... the con of hi resolution downloads that aren't ...
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Maybe you could summarise, Rob, since you raised the issue.
 
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I'll post something regarding hi-res tonight.

Meanwhile, the latest issue has a feature on the vintage Quad 33/303 and puts the pair through a thorough test.

Also an excellent feature on Roksan and the company history.
 
The summary is that many hi-res downloads do not originate from hi-res recordings, but just are reformated standard resolution, either by correct or inept upsampling.

This is no news, and this does not differ at all from what happened with DVD-A and SACD.
 
Yes, Werner, I realise that in principle that is old news, but as a general point it is not much of a guide to action except "buyer beware". The criticism mentioned here was specific to Linn and HDTracks and I would like to know specifically what is a con and how to avoid it in practice.
 
SteveC said:
Yes, Werner, I realise that in principle that is old news, but as a general point it is not much of a guide to action except "buyer beware". The criticism mentioned here was specific to Linn and HDTracks and I would like to know specifically what is a con and how to avoid it in practice.
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Little can be added to Werner's comment.
The HFN article simply highlighted that a number of releases from Linn and HDT were in fact standard res originals that had been up-sampled.

Avoiding it as a purchaser is going to be difficult, though I'd make the comment that if these so called hi-res releases were in fact noticeably superior, well you ought to hear it!

Ultimately, you'd have to download or purchase the music, perform the required analysis of the data and all should become clear. If you've been 'done' then ask for a refund.
There are obvious signs to look for - but perhaps get a copy of the mag for the detail. £4 well spent.
 
I used to subscribe to HFN and send it on to my brother. Then it got too much for me. Ridiculously priced equipment, including cables. Enormous speakers costing up to £40,000, for instance. Who can afford those and the houses to put them in ?
The vintage audio articles were interesting, but you can have too much of it. The 'articles/reviews from the archive' did it for me.
Not to mention that twit Ken Kessler...
 
I haven't read any of the magazines in years. There is nothing worth reading in any of them. None of it is relevent to me and there are far too many vested interested. Hifi+ being the worst offender
 

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