High Expectations (take 2)

[Paul Ranson]

ISTR that Naim North America offer a 5 year warranty whereas it's less in the UK.

Paul

 

[TonyL]

This sounds wonderful, but doesn't it actually depend upon what is considered to be the lifetime of a CDP. I've examined the warranty of a few manufacturers of electronic equipment (my own included), and the average "lifetime" warranty seems to equate to 7 years when you read the smallprint. Still a good warranty though.

Densen's warranty is highlighted on their website (www.densen.dk), it does not seem to have any get out clauses or disclaimers and even states that they will provide some (undisclosed) form of compensation if at any point in the future they do not have the necessary spare parts to honour the agreement. I think that takes some beating and makes the majority of manufacturers look remarkably unconfident to stand by the reliability of their products.

Tony.

 

[Lawrie]

ISTR that Naim North America offer a 5 year warranty whereas it's less in the UK.

Paul

Very interesting, Paul! Here again, it would appear that U.K. customers are getting, a 'raw deal' even from a U.K. manufacturer (on the face of things)? Again, there must be a reason why U.S. audiophiles get a higher warranty than their U.K. counterparts or is it because that the Americans are more demanding than the rest of mankind?

Out of interest, I noticed that you mentioned Naim North America. Is this an off-shoot of Naim U.K. in that components are produced in the U.S. as well or is it just a U.S. distribution set-up for Naim U.K.? Please don't tell me to contact Naim North America for answers.




Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

[Paul Ranson]

I think it's a wholly or partly owned distribution and service organisation for North America. AFAIK manufacture is all UK based. Maintenance and upgrades are done locally. But you'd have to ask Naim for details....

I think any Naim owner in the UK who had a problem out of warranty would be sorted out 'sympathetically'. It wouldn't put me off buying Naim. Although I'd prefer an explicit 5 year warranty as Linn offer.

Paul

 

[lordsummit]

I've got two 15 year old pieces of Naim kit, I know if they went wrong they would be able to repair it. In fact when I got it they were happy to spend about half an hour on the phone helping me to sort out a problem I had with it. A warrenty is only as good as the company. Cyrus could offer a 20 year warranty, but will they still be around to honour it?

 

[michaelab]

so why on earth do you think that my comments were directed at Robbo?

Well, you've had your "disagreements" with him in the past and you're not unknown for taking ever so subtle potshots at the kit owned by people you've had "disagreements" with.

Michael.

 

[wadia-miester]

North American Naim are NO longer owned by Naim, they sold it off in 2002 and for the princely sum of £68K I think

 

[felix]

If you are paying for high end kit, what standard of performance and finish do you expect?

The definition of high end in this instance is either "above £5000" or "the best a manufacturer makes" (i.e. the flagship range)

Very good question Tom.

I have to say - if I were to pay that order of cash for a domestic appliance, the fit, finish and service has to be of the very highest order. At the sort of prices we are talking - or even consider 'reasonable' (??wtf??) - it's competing with good secondhand family cars, a couple of top family holidays, a year's worth of mortgage repayments... you pick the tradeoff. As a norm, an (ultimately) disposable box that refuses to play a disposable medium just doesn't cut it.

It's a bit of an aside but the usual audio-marketing appeals to 'professional' qualty generally do the hifi industry (for it is an industry, albeit a small one) no favours. Professional gear - in any sphere - either costs up front, or to service - but rarely both, becsause it's expected to just work. People buy 'pro' gear because it pays them to; their business depends upon it to some extent.

But then again - when it comes down to it, most 'high end' gear owes its relevance to reasons which have less to do with the enjoyment it brings and rather more to kinship with peacocks tail's, bright plummage in spring, and the sort of existential issues that hifi forums allow us inmates to ignore for a while. VFM isn't really on the list.

 

[Robbo]

Lawrie wrote :

So my question is: are the Sim Audio products sold in North America the same as those sold in the U.K. or are those sold in the U.K. dumbed down versions of the American ones?

I think that is not the case. Inside most of the Simaudio kit is a 220/120v switch so it is the same equipment for all territories.

I think the reason for the different warranty is as Michaelab suggested, the distributor takes on responsibility for this as part of the distribution agreement. This is compensated for by the huge margin the distributor add onto the kit he sells!

Absolute sounds has exactly the same type of agreement with its products such as audio research. It says as much on the audio research website :-

Audio Research has authorized distribution in many countries of the world. In each country, the authorized importing retailer or distributor has accepted the responsibility for warranty of products sold by that retailer or distributor. Warranty service should normally be obtained from the importing retailer or distributor from whom you purchased your product. In the unlikely event of service required beyond the capability of the importer, Audio Research will fulfill the conditions of the warranty. Such product must be returned at the owner's expense to the Audio Research factory, together with a photocopy of the bill of sale for that product, a detailed description of the problem, and any information necessary for return shipment.

Robbo

 

[Lawrie]

Well, you've had your "disagreements" with him in the past and you're not unknown for taking ever so subtle potshots at the kit owned by people you've had "disagreements" with.

Michael.

Michael,

This is very silly and I'm sure that if Robbo had an issue with my comments he would have been the first to say so. I don't think he needs an ill-informed mouthpiece like you jumping to the wrong conclusions. Now that you've mentioned it, as forum owner & Super Moderator, can you publish (without falsely editing) the posts in which I have taken potshots at the kit of people I have had disagreements with? You would have to prove that they were indeed potshots and not actual negative experiences that I've had with the said kit.

Am I not supposed to comment negatively on kit that certain people own? If I wrote in and mentioned something about Wadia, you and others will jump in and say I am taking potshots at WadiaMeister before WM has even had time to comment. You've done this before when I mentioned that Wadia had been under more times than a deep sea diver. Several months later, Wadia was taken off Stereophile's recommended components list due to lack of stock availability. Distributors worldwide were also complaining about lack of stock and delivery delays. At the time the news was made public by Stereophile's actions, WM even commented to me "now we know what you meant" (check the archives under 'Wadia'). So why you are making a big fuss over my comments is what surprises me. I would have thought that as forum owner, you would have known better than to try to provoke an argument between two forum users.

I am on record for saying that I do not like the sound of the Chord DAC64 and the only way I would own one is if it had tubes in it. That view hasn't changed and was made without having had a prior disagreement with you. So what exactly are you saying or have you been on the sherry again?


Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

[Lawrie]

I think the reason for the different warranty is as Michaelab suggested, the distributor takes on responsibility for this as part of the distribution agreement. This is compensated for by the huge margin the distributor add onto the kit he sells!

Absolute sounds has exactly the same type of agreement with its products such as audio research. It says as much on the audio research website :-

Robbo

Robbo,

Thanks for the info. It could explain why certain bits of hifi are so riduculously expensive in the U.K. than in other countries although I would have thought that the longer the warranty, the more expensive the gear is. This does not appear to be the case in the U.S. and some other countries though where the warranties are longer, but the prices are lower than in the U.K. Some of the distributors I know (outside of the U.K.) are not such risk takers or in such a monopolistic position as Ricardo of Absolute Sounds or Branco of Audiofreaks U.K. in that they can influence manufacturers' distribution policies and even what parts go into the boxes etc e.g. Karan Acoustics which is distributed in the U.K. by Audiofreaks. Now I know many owners of the Karan Acoustics integrated, pre & power amps (I use it myself) and all of our amps are wired internally with Transparent wire, the manufactuer's preference. However, all Karan Acoustics amps bound for the U.K. are wired internally with Cardas cable. I'll let you draw your own conclusions from that. Another example is the Conrad Johnson MV-60SE power amp. This version was only introduced as a result of pressure from one distributor - Audiofreaks. So yes, some distributors can negotiate lucrative distribution deals and even influence the design of the said kit, moreso than others, but at the end of the day, there is nothing wrong with that at all. It's called 'business'.

It must be noted however, that my questions had nothing to do with the fact that we had a disagreement several months ago and that you do own Sim Audio amps as I did not have your kit in mind when I posted. I must say that I do take issue with Michael's accusations. I would have thought that as forum owner, he would be looking for peace on this forum rather than trying to provoke an argument. Some people, eh!



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

[michaelab]

Oh Lawrie, you do take things all very seriously don't you? I was just having a little dig

Michael.