Mf Kw

Yes, the M3 wasnt bad and GrahamN got a pretty good sound out of his to be fair, but listen to some trivistas or an A308 and tell me what you think

Just my opinion, nothing to do with WM!

In any case I have more of an issue with the constant updating of the range every 5 minutes. Its all about clever marketing/maximising profits and less about focusing on the owners. Personally I wouldn't be too pleased if after spending a load of wonga on the latest, greatest thing, only to find that 6 months later its not that good after all and the residual value has gone through the floor because the new star amp has appeared.

You have to remember that amplifier evolution has not moved very far in the last 25 years, so is that new amp really that much better?

Sorry to be so cynical, but I bet I am not that far away from the truth.

Robbo

 

I guess you're right about the ever-changing product range, but lets have a look on the bright side. when the new version arrives You'll be able to pick up the old unit for less. The old unit doesn't overnight start to sound bad because a new version has been released.

 

I agree, its always better to buy secondhand anyway.

 

Spot on Robbo, in 3 months time you will be able to get the lot for a mere £10-£12k. or the next Am inspired maketing excerise kicks in :boughtMF: .
I think Robbo summed it up well, Less terminal :SLEEP: and more :guitar: .
Maybe a chalenge, I get a 308 power amp, and (a trivista) and well stick in a system, with an amp of equal value and just swop em over then let MO decide, seems a fair and honest test

 

oh and another thing,

£22K+ and no balanced inputs or outputs

 

Tone we've done it though, several of us were there in fact.

It was enough to make you weep...... That A308 was OK, I didn't take to it much, but it wasn't awful. Except then you told me it was about 4 times the price I thought it should have been. Ho humm :SLEEP: Nice phono sockets round the back though. Each one is about 3 quid in Maplins.................

Cheers

 

For reasons I can't remember AM doesn't believe in balanced connections.

Michael.

 

The only MF kit i've heard is "x" series stuff, and a little listen to some Nu Vista. The only Bit of the three pieces I own (Amp, DAC, and Headphone amp) I auditioned against other kit was the amp. I can't recall what I auditioned it against, the usual suspects around £500 price. Yes I Like the styling, but believe it or now, I felt that although the other amps were all good, the MF just seemed to do it all better.

I'm not here to defend MF. Like I say, i've only really heard the kit I own. I like it. I think the philosopy of keeping it honest and true to the recording is a sound one. Add your colourings later in the mix.

When I come to upgrade in the future, I may well hear another sound and realise what a terminal snooze my kit is. But it has an un-shifting control on the sounds I like. For now i'm happy in my apparent ignorance

As for not believing in balanced connections..... I didn't know this. And, I also didn't think it was a case of believing or not. I thought they ARE the better choice.

 

Having owned a MF Pre-Power, I have to say that thier AMPs are pretty Dire to say the least.
22k for a MF has got to be a Joke. I would give you £200 for ANY MF gear.

Been there, got the T-Shirt, didn't get HIFI.

 

Hi Mo

The XA-1 / 2 /100 etc. are not the most visceral amps in the world but they are fully competant and competitve IMHO. They have a sound but it is mild and helps compatibility and this gentle tailoring helps with about 80% of the kind of music people are likely to play. No bad thing all things considered.

The A308 though, didn't seem to perform as well as the amp you've got for some aspects!! Ok maybe a slight exaggeration, but then you have to factor in the amazing price hike between the two. It was hi-fi in the worst sense, with everything approaching drive and impotus seemingly removed.

If I were you Mo, I'd look out for some of those lovely matching XA-200s, there are good by any standards (although a bit expensive s/h at the moment). You see they can do it, it's just their take on what they think Hi-end should sound like that worries me.

Cheers

 

I don't think that's necessarily true.

I may be talking complete bollox here but I can't see that balanced connections (whether digital or analog) have any advantage in the home environment where cable lengths are short. Even if you have monoblocs, one sitting behind each speaker, then your pre -> power ICs are still only going to be able 3-4m each which is still fine for a good shielded single ended cable.

Balanced connections come from the professional environment and are used there because cable lengths of 10-30m (or more) are common and they're running all over the studio/stage and subject to all kinds of interference. There they do make a difference.

No doubt there are lots of examples of domestic kit that "sounds a lot better" through the balanced connections but IMO that's as much to do with the manufacturer spending most of the money on getting the balanced connections right and leaving the single ended ones as an afterthought (slight exaggeration - but you see what I'm getting at).

MF not fitting balanced connections to any of their kit is IMO on a par with a number of high end speaker manufacturers (eg. Dynaudio, Sonus Faber) not fitting bi-wire terminals. Better to get the basics right than cater to some bit of HiFi voodoo that connection type X is better :duck:

Michael.

 

Ah hmmm........ :banghead:

:beamup:

Cheers

 

Come on then Tim - let's have the explanation! :devil: I did say I might be talking bollox :shame: but MF has to have some good reason (and it's not a cost issue) to not fit balanced connections...

Michael.

 

Balanced connections have all the advantages of any differential (analogue) connection. Apart from almost complete noise immunity (with the right cables, twisted pair being the right one technically although not always sonically) their levels are higher anyway and so noise is always proportionately smaller. the only potential problem with balanced analogue is that the two signals have to be exactly 180° out of phase. Most other manf. manage this though. When they are summed at the receiving end, anything other than almost exactly right = a mess, and results in the sort of distortions that they try to minmise in amps by reducing negative feedback etc. !!

Also what you say about noise not being a problem in the domestic environment, I feel I have to disagree as a system integrator and thus having a large instrumentation engineer quotient to my job. Noise is everywhere, and there's much more than you think. Even in apparently quiet environments, there is always noise. Look at it this way, even the metal legs of my desk here are probably listening to Radio 4 (all on their own) as we speak. Anything conductive that has a high impedance to ground (i.e. is insulated from it) is an aerial. And I mean anything.

Cheers

 

The major advantage of balanced connections is that you remove the requirement of a shared ground potential. Any voltage-based signal relies on the difference between two conductors. In the case of single ended, that's the central conductor and the system ground - which may well involve the mains connection and the I/C shield. Ground loops are well know problems. Balanced connections drive both sides of the signal, so (and this is the main point) the receiver can be far more isolated from its surroundings. Hence the balanced system is potentially far more tolerant of environmental imperfections - not just pickup of airborne noise. Makes sense to me!

[edit]
Appears that great minds do think alike!

 

Why thank-you Graham .

There's nothing like a good "balanced" argument (please excuse awful pun, I couldn't resist.... ).

Cheers

 

And in addition to the reasons above, many manufacturers take the engineering premise a step further by maintaining the signal integrity throughout the audio chain. This is achieved through the use of balanced DACs and balanced gain stages. Therefore, when you think you're buying 2 channels of equipment, you are in reality purchasing 4 channels. Examples of this include BAT, Gamut, Pass Labs etc, etc

reg

 

...and LC Audio

 

i'd also argue that the connection afforded by an xlr is better than an rca too.

having only heard an a3 integrated, an a3 cd player and a 3d nuvista cd player i'd say that the a3 kit was 'nice' it compared favorably to the krell 300i i heard a jj's and if that is the sound you are looking for (smooth, controlled but lifeless imho) then there and few better cd / amp combos at the price. i demo's it back to back with a cd5 / nait 5 though so guess which one i bought. that said the mf stuff didn;t mess up the music it just wasn;t as engaging as the naim kit.
the 3d nuvistor wasn't too impressive though, it was the kit version of lift music. there, but not engaging. i felt my cd5 / hi-cap stomped it for what i like to listen for in music however again this is imo.
there does seem to be a glut of nuvistor kit on the market at the moment so if you fancy some snap it up.
cheers

julian