My Concern at This Forum

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by garyi, Sep 19, 2003.

  1. garyi

    garyi Wish I had a Large Member

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    I believe it is time to mention something that concerns me.

    I wish no ill intent to any one as I believe we all have a right to be here.

    But self promotion for commercial products seems to be creeping about the place.

    I am a synic at heart and am angered when stuff is sold in the way that it is. I notice that most people who have a commercial interest here are 'out' and try carefully to remain aloof. However I don't think its working. where people aren't selling there own stuff they are actively promoting other peoples. where they aren't selling there own stuff, bearly concealed attempts at non promotion are promotion in themselves.

    Question is what to do about it. I like the postings of everyone on this forum but I think the self congratulatory or false attempts at flattering others in return for flaterence is becoming a little obvious.

    Lets cut to the chase, make your intentions clear, or steer clear.

    I know I will be deeply unpopular for this.
     
    garyi, Sep 19, 2003
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  2. garyi

    michaelab desafinado

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    garyi - I think you've brought up an important issue, I hope you won't be thought unpopular for it. Afterall, we'd all like the forum to be as indepentent as possible.

    Before this thread becomes a raft of accusations and counter-strikes can I suggest that it be used instead to suggest ideas for solving the problem without, if possible, mentioning specific cases?

    For specific cases, please PM me instead.

    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Sep 19, 2003
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  3. garyi

    robs

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    I doubt it...I think you have a valid point. But I would hope that most people here are aware of other's 'interests', be it professional or otherwise, and to be fair, AFAICT those who do have a 'professional' interest seem to be quite good at coming clean about it. I was asking WM about his product a couple of days ago, and he has been somewhat reticent..i.e not blowing his own trumpet for fear of being accused of blowing his own trumpet....

    In fact, the general tone of the last few days has been quite anti the marketing hype that accompanies our particular hobby. A decent dose of skepticism & cynicism vs the 'try it and you'll see'...errr 'hear' brigade. Both sides have valid arguments.

    I think it's great that we can have the argument.

    CAVEAT EMPTOR!!!

    Not everything you read on the internet is untrue.
     
    robs, Sep 19, 2003
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  4. garyi

    garyi Wish I had a Large Member

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    Yes, although I am probably regarded as a stirrer, I do it in good jest but I too would welcome a way in which those that are selling things are really clear about it.

    Its not just this industry I know, but I do believe that forums are becoming a tool for people to sell things, and unfortunatley the general concensus seems to be that if we are clever enough to use the web we should know to look out for these things.

    I would imagine that as someone trying to sell something as well its very difficult to draw the line or to remain independent, because ultimatly I think forums are a new way of meeting friends and of enjoying a hobby, which those that are selling things crave as much as the rest of us.

    I believe actually that those that are selling things are doing a good job of remaining as nutral as they can, but at the end of the day, new people must be joining the forum and I don't think it appropriate that this forum be used for free advirtising, unless of course it were paid for..
     
    garyi, Sep 19, 2003
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  5. garyi

    adam

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    It's really funny as i've been following a hi-fi forum in spanish,it's only been going for about 6 months and it has exactly the same problems,that this forum,HFC,groovehandle,it is unavoidable,and it's going to happen.

    The two big arguments going on over there are,suprise suprise,cables,and you have the sceptics,and the believers,and the other is as garyis point of comercial intrest.But when you think of it everytime you mention a brand name its free advertising for them,it just gets a bit tiring hearing the same few names and the same arguments over and over again.
     
    adam, Sep 19, 2003
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  6. garyi

    garyi Wish I had a Large Member

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    Adam, I am not really refering to peoples interest in hifi, we could all be considered salesmen if that were the case.
     
    garyi, Sep 19, 2003
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  7. garyi

    michaelab desafinado

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    The only one paying for the forum is me, and I want it to stay that way for the forseeable future.

    Having a list of known people in the trade might be good but OTOH it might appear as if the forum were endorsing those people/products even more so I'm not keen on it.

    On the whole I think everyone here knows the score and is behaving reasonably ethically.

    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Sep 19, 2003
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  8. garyi

    robs

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    Garyi,

    I posted a link to a website a couple of days ago - a US company who specialise in isolation & damping materials. I have no involvement with them (other than my employers have used their product in the past). Do you regard this as free advertising? I posted in the belief that people here could have a look at the site (they have some interesting 'technical' info - not just 'buy this it's great'!) and gain some knowledge from it. Some may even go on to become customers. Some may even go on to make money from it...who knows? IMHO the more knowledge we can gain from sites like this the better. I always assume that people here have a healthy dollop of sceptiscm for whatever they read...it should go hand in hand with using forums anywhere.

    Michael...you mean you're paying good money for all this hassle!!!???
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2003
    robs, Sep 19, 2003
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  9. garyi

    garyi Wish I had a Large Member

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    No robs, I believe me intention of this post has been lost already.

    Its not really important anyway, I like to post here, I ain't gonna give it all that ' I am leaving crap', it was just an observation.
     
    garyi, Sep 19, 2003
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  10. garyi

    lowrider Live music is surround

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    After beeing victim of Velodynitis in another forum ;) , I wouldn't like the same situation here... :mad:

    But, so far, I don't see the same trend in ZeroGain, here both the "sellers" and the nay sayers are given a fair chance, and sides usually even up... :beer:
     
    lowrider, Sep 19, 2003
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  11. garyi

    robs

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    Goferitthen. Who ya gettin' at!! Letsav some specifics? What's your worry?
     
    robs, Sep 19, 2003
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  12. garyi

    badchamp Thermionic Member

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    Must say I'm with Antonio.

    I think lessons have been learned from Grooveahndle's demise and :beer: to Joel and Michael and this is a most educational, amusing and inspiring community.
     
    badchamp, Sep 19, 2003
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  13. garyi

    themadhippy seen it done it smokin it

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    how about making it a condition of membership that any comercial/proffesional intrests are declared and if possible an extra field added below the users name stating such intrest? eg manufacter,re-seller,ect
     
    themadhippy, Sep 19, 2003
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  14. garyi

    wadia-miester Mighty Rearranger

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    I think garyi has raised a Fair point, On G/h we all made a point of being not advert driven or sponsered ala' A/V forums, Z/G has grown out of that demise, and I feel flouished.
    Now a few of the posters here are 'In the Biz' Myself and Timpy included. We do cables and stuff, so very releveant at the moment, so I can see a potential conflict of interst senerio here, we try to be completely neutral as possible, only reacting to queiry, rather than 'providing information freely', we don';t bang on about our products, or name directly others that we feel are 'not good' (except m/f but thats electronics)
    We do go on sometimes about cables, beacsue we feel they can make an important difference (yes we would say that I know), buit we do recomend other manufactures products, that we have no connection with or commerical tie-ups (if we do, we will say), we do this beacuse we feel they work, no other reason, the same way Mike B feels about his dac 64 (he doesn't work for chord) or Antonio about his sonus Fabors, or Merlin and his Shunyata's or WM's Belcanto.
    We also try and take into account the system configuration when suggesting a component, don't always get the right match either.
    Also near all the recommendations are on a SOR basis, which means at worst the most you loose is the carriage, to me thats a small price for confirming or denying a prospective purchase, if thats seems wrong well hey Guilty M'lud :rolleyes:
    We do assist in a lot of DIY projects with information to indivduals seeking some answers, DIY is encouraged, however for those seeking more than this, even in DIY format, more expensive parts will be required, IE Belden RS mains cable is great to a point, the same way FFRC is, we have tried most of these NOT all, I don't think anyone has least of all us.
    We tried and tested a substanical amount of gear, some amazing some average, some dire, and not all in the silly money is good either, surprising we feel the best buys are in the lower mid point areas, some seriously good gear here, thats overlooked and under used. More money doesn't automatical mean better sound, but chose carefully and you can exceed the sum of the parts.
    I think thats it's farly balanced here at the moment, if that changes then it's up to mike to redress that balance. WM

    PS, I feel at the moment on the forum they are a few posters who are not who they 'appear' to be, might be nice if we ditched the Monikers possibly?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2003
    wadia-miester, Sep 19, 2003
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  15. garyi

    NOS-4-A2 Creature of the night

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    Both ditching the alias and having a field declaring vendor status rely upon trust and so are easily abused by those that wish to do so - i.e. situation exactly as current.

    I believe that if we wish to continue to have a free (thanks Michael) open forum we will just have to put up with a certain amount of 'viral marketing'. It's just another annoyance but I believe that most people recoginse it for what it is and just ignore the posts.

    I have to say that I find it useful when people put links or recommendations in their posts - more interesting research to be done.
     
    NOS-4-A2, Sep 20, 2003
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  16. garyi

    osama Perenially Bored

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    Thanks for that Michael. What do you think about having a section for people who want to advertise their services or prods? It could be a part of the Buy & Sell section. We can't blame nor prevent anybody who have some business agenda here, as long as they do it properly(well, whatever that maybe).

    regards
     
    osama, Sep 20, 2003
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  17. garyi

    Matt F

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    I personally don't have a problem with it.

    If, for example, Tony came up with a set of interconnects for £50 that are way better than anything commercially available up to £100 then I want to know about it.

    In fact, the benefit of forums is that in the above example, if Tony sold a few pairs to forum members and they weren't as good as he claimed then they would post this and all other forum members would see it - this has to be better than relying on What HiFi or your hifi dealer for advice.

    So I guess what I am saying is that if it gives forum members access to quality gear at really good prices then I'm all for it.

    I would say though that any commercial interests should be declared in signatures.

    Matt.
     
    Matt F, Sep 20, 2003
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  18. garyi

    michaelab desafinado

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    I agree.
    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Sep 20, 2003
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  19. garyi

    Nepherim Deep Purple Flactulence

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    I'd second (or third, or whatever we're upto now) the signature idea. I don't even see why commercial bods would have a prob with this -- it's free marketing.

    Yes, it's based on trust, but it's easy to enforce. we pretty much know everyone here, so rule breakers will be easy to spot.

    Sig should include url, and a short description of what the person sells. Open to all, caveat emptor.

    ~ ~ Dave
     
    Nepherim, Sep 20, 2003
    #19
  20. garyi

    7_V I want a Linn - in a DB9

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    I'm more than happy to declare my interest in my signature. To be honest, the reason that I haven't always used it was that I wanted to avoid publishing my web site address on the forum every time I posted. I thought I might be accused of over-marketing.
     
    7_V, Sep 20, 2003
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