Proms anyone?

Hallo,
is anybody going to the comcert on Monday the 29th?
The Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich is playing Also sprach Zarathustra, the 3rd pianoconcert of beethoven (Emanuel Ax) and The flying dutchman

 

Titian, unfortunately I will be passing on this one. I'd like to hear the orchestra and conductor but I'm not a fan of the soloist or Also sprach...

I've also been to five concerts last week and in the next five days we have Jansons and the Concertgebouw(x2), the Clevelanders (x2), Harry Christophers and The Sixteen doing Spem in alium and other English Tudor music and Colin Davis conducting Berlioz! I need to pace myself.

 

Big mistake! Word from the arena was that the Zurich Tonhalle were very good indeed. In contrast, both the Cleveland Orchestra concerts were underwhelming. The Beethoven Missa Solemnis was frankly tedious, with no dynamic range, no impact from the chorus and some fairly average playing from the band. It seems like Franz Welser-Most is having the same unfortunate effect on them as he did on the LPO a decade ago.

 

I believe Frankly-Worse-Than-Most is what they used to call him.... saw him conducting the LPO in Bruckner 8 about 12 years ago in Edinburgh.... the flattest most uninspiring and trivial performance of just about anything I've ever heard.

I cannot understand the ecstatic reviews his Bruckner 5 got either... I've got it and its been lying in the "give it away to somebody else pile" for years. No-one wanted it.

 

I went last Friday to hear the concert of the Tonhalle Orchestra in Zurich. They did the same Program as in London plus two encores (Elgar, I believe, and Wagner).
Also for me they played very well but I had some doubts about the 3rd piano concerto of Beethoven. I didn't like much that way of playing Beethoven. I wonder if somebody (maybe Graham since he goes nearly to all the concerts) could tell me their / his feelings about the concert.
At the concert I bought also their CD-Box containing all the orchestral works of R. Strauss and I admit I like up to now what I listened to. Also the sound quality of these "cheap" CDs (Arte Nova) are extremely good, at least at my place. I might at the next concert buy the box with the complete symphonies of Beethoven even if I have already over 15 different versions of them!

 

I've got that complete set of Beethoven symphonies with Zinman - its very good indeed - very sprightly and fresh sounding, with excellent sound quality too. The only problem is the 9th, something not right about it but don't know what.

 

Serves you right for getting one of those posh seat-thingies

I have to say though that I agree with every word of that. I was wondering how much effect the hall had, as I was behind the fountain for the first time this year and the sound was very remote and muddy - but friends in my more normal position really quite liked it though. The disappointment was the more pronounced in comparison with than wonderful Verdi Requiem from the BBC Phil - even though I thought the tenor had the wrong kind of voice for that part. Looking forward to what the Concertgebouw will do - they've come over rather lacking in commitment the last few times I've seen them, but I doubt Jansons will put up with that.

I'm afraid I also found the Tonhalle disappointing (although nowhere near as much). While the playing was probably a bit more secure, I didn't feel they had anything like the spark they had in their last vist - which was what made that so special. Maybe my expectations were just too high after their last visit. I felt the Beethoven was OK, although there were some definite ensemble problems between the wind and the strings (who do play wonderfully together, though, and the front desks still play more like a chamber group than any other orchestra I've seen). I do actually like the modern-period approach, certainly in earlier Beethoven. I thought the piano sound a bit thick though - not sure whether that was Ax or the instrument setup - the opening sounded more appropriate to Grieg or Rachmaninov than Beethoven.

Their Flying Dutchman Overture though was a joke - I have never heard anyone make this piece sound boring before . So staid and not an ounce of trouble or tension in it.

The piece I really went for was Also Sprach Zarathustra. And again I wasn't impressed. Others were, who liked the methodical and structural interpretation Zinman gave - and he really brought out the C/B conflict throughout. Doesn't do it for me though - in this piece above all I want Karajan soup . The "Of Joys and Passions" was fairly low in either quality, and if the "Dance Song" danced it did so only on crutches - and had absolutely none of the "Dionysiac ecstacy" mentioned in the programme notes. So, for me, this was not a patch on the BBC Scottish performance under Brabbins about 4 years ago. As one of the reviewers has mentioned - a very "Swiss" performance (every note right and proper in its place, but very little passion).

Titian, are you sure their encore was Elgar? We got Walton's "Crown Imperial" - and they played it worderfully - with all the swagger and panache that was missing from the Strauss. (They did do Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance No 4 two years ago)Wagner's Lohengrin Act III Prelude was also on the stands for a 2nd encore - which fortunately we didn't get, as that's one of the few pieces by Wagner I truly detest .

So this week's highlight for me so far has been the good old BBC Phil who are really a very good orchestra. In the past I've always been more impressed by the "MacBeeb" (BBC Scottish), who have also done some super concerts this year, but at the moment I think the Phil are edging it. I have noticed though that both these orchestras have quite an astringent string tone (certainly in comparison to the much mellower Tonhalle). Maybe that's one reason why they do the impact thing better than our visitors so far.

(BTW - I have the Tonhalle Beethoven 7 & 8, very fresh fast and fun but not the feverish excitement of Kleiber(7) or Karajan(8), and after hearing their 3 on the radio earlier this year that's on the shopping list too).

 

The passion is what I'm missing in any Zinman's interpretation that's why I brought up my positings. I didn't know if it was only my way of feeling music.
On the other way I find it also interesting to hear once "something else", something done in a way you're not used to listen to (for example methodical and structural instead of passional with tension and so on...).

I wasn't sure it was Walton but wrote Elgar instead.
Isn't it anyway the same?

 

I got a free upgrade to business class!

I wondered if location was part of the problem but I was in the prime spot (just in front of the fountain) for their Mahler 3, and that similarly ran the whole gamut of emotions from A to B... I also was fortunate to hear Philippe Herreweghe and the Orchestre des Champs-Elysées do the Missa at the Barbican earlier this year. A stunning performance despite being in a rather distant seat. Their recording is very good too and was recently avaliable for £5 in the perpetual HMV "sale".

 

Bruckner 8 - pretty good

What did others think of last night's Prom? (VPO/Eschenbach Bruckner 8).

It took a little while to get going - the initial tempo seemed too slow, and there was little sense of flow in the first half of the first movement. I thought it might not be worth persevering, but matters improved; by the end of the first movement the performance had got into its stride and from then on it was very enjoyable. Terrific playing, well engineered sound (if slightly "hollow" sounding in the upper bass register via DAB) - and the audience didn't (for once) insist on applauding between movements.

Still, good as I felt it was, it would have been better if there had been a warm-up piece first. It just doesn't make any sense, either for performers or audience, to launch into a Bruckner or Mahler symphony from cold. Even a Mozart overture ought to be enough to get the re-creative juices flowing, and to add a piece of that length to the programme surely wouldn't break any scheduling or budgetary limits?

 

i watched last nights Proms through Freeview and both sound quality (with lots of digital noise and clipping) and visual quality (not a patch on the likes of Eastenders or The Bill) were very poor indeed. The music was exceptional and I even thought their new conductor was good although he yabbered on a little. Could have done with a little more bottom end on the organ imo- i wanted to feel my floor vibrate a little more with Pomp & Circumstance :JPS: The satellite link up for the bugle call was good but it went a bit tits up when they crossed to Belfast too early. Whoops!!

 

The BBC proms notice-board has been full of complaints all season about the poor quality of digital transmissions. It must be bad if this is an issue for people who are, one presumes, music lovers before hi-fi nerds.

I've only listened to FM which has sounded as good as ever via a NAT02. Or live of course for about half the concerts!