Unbelieveable

mick,
rehabilitation is possible and i would say - and have before - that it should be tried before screwing up a persons life due to unknown factors. certainly 2nd or 3rd strike and they should be put away for a long time though. i do think that part of the problem is with the punishment no longer fitting the crime.
cheers

julian

 

Julian

There are times when you just have to bite the bullet for the good of society.

The little scumbags who done what was mentioned in this thread are thugs.

I do not care about them one iota. I do care about people who suffer from their actions and whose lives are more than likely ruined for years.

Those little thugs have morally lost their human rights, so lock them up and forget that they exist. Frankly who cares about them.

As regards to the 3 strikes philosophy, I just feel sorry for the person whose house is done on the 2nd and 3rd occassion where you advocate another chance being given.

Locking them up is the only answer.

Regards

Mick

 

mick,
imho it's a question of nature or nurture. if a teenage thug has been brought up by a pair of abusive alchoholic parents who only view their child as something that entitles them to benefits then it is / should be society's job to attempt to straighten the kid out - in fact they should have stepped in earlier imho but that's another argument.
my point is that if the thug knows no better and cannot see themselves doing anything else other than breaking and entering for a living then they should be given the opportunity to turn themselves arround. this shouldn;t be done in the community but in an environment where their growing pains wouldn;t hurt anyone - a remote scottish island perhaps? then when they return they have their records locked and effectively a clean slate. also they should be banned from returning to their old area for 5 years too. if they offend again then they are thown in jail and must work to pay off all the resources squandered on them during the initial phase.
that way you end up with less feckless 30-40 year olds who have been in prison for 20 years who know nothing else except breaking and entering and who've probably learnt a whole load of new tricks whilst inside.
cheers


julian

 

Julian

My point is very simple. I have no concernes about the welfare or well being of burglars.

Stick them inside irrespective of their background. The main priority is that a clear message must be sent out......burgulary is a high risk crime and if you do it, you are finished.

If they come out and reoffend, back in again for another 20 years.

No one in their right mind will committ a burgulary without thinking very hard about it.

Regards

Mick

 

mick,
you are making the classic mistake of trying to put an old head on young shoulders. when you are 17 you are invincible and have no concept of lost time or mortality. a 20 year sentance to a teenager is meaningless.
cheers


julian

 

Julian

I am not interested in what is good for the 17 year old burglar, to me, he is sub human.

Locking them up for 20 yrs removes another burglar from the streets and that is the most important thing.

I care 100% for the victim and 0% for the burglar.

Regards

Mick

 

Mick, here's a book for your blood pressure:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...A Journey to the Edge</A>/026-6983978-5112401

Basically, the guy was a photographer who went around the rough parts of the world taking arty photos.

He then decides to go on a tour of the dodgiest bits of the UK for comparison, staying with the locals en route. And guess what? Yep, Afghaninstan = Benwell [or county Durham in Mart's case]

Mart, I can remember similair headaches. You did the right thing.
I used to know landlords in the Newcastle area, but years ago. I'll give it some thought. Most nowadays are bedsits for students.
Jobs? Keep plugging away mate. I've spent 2 years trying to get back to a sensible job since moving to Leics, and I've just got a promising one last week. I've had the last 5 months working in a warehouse and I wouldn't recommend it...
What about Local gov jobs?

http://www.jobsgopublic.com/

Its a nice gravy train, modest starting wages, but loads of holidays, guaranteed pension etc. They should be hypersensitive about rejecting applicants with 'issues' if you don't mind me putting it like that...I think you need to pull every trick you can, because jobhunting is pure luck.

 

Hi Steve,

Not sure if you know this, but Dawley is still a shit hole (actually WM had a business in the cabins (next to A1computers I think) anyway.... Telford is about to go through a MAJOR renovation. Over the next 5 - 10 years Woodside, Brookside, SuttonHill (the bad part) Malinslee, part of the town park, is basically being bulldozed and replaced with more trendy upmarket housing and businesses (the town centre will be upgraded too).
This is all well and good and is actually the next logical step as the council estates (I grew up on Brookside for 20 years) only had a shelf life of 30 years anyway. So the cycle starts again: throw money at it (not a bad thing IMO) - all is well - 5 years later, dowhill for 25years. What Im trying to say is you can change the environment but ultimately the social and moral fibre of people will continue - Its not even a money thing - a good job does not a good parent make.

btw did you know who did your place over in Dawley?

Say hello to Robin for me.

atb //craig

 

In the light of the recent posts, I once more recommend that you read this book.

I also repeat that it's time to throw away the doctrines of left and right and look at what works *:

1. What has succeeded in reducing crime/improving employment/improving education/improving healthcare provision/etc. IN THE PAST.

2. What has succeeded in reducing crime/improving employment/improving education/improving healthcare provision/etc. IN OTHER COUNTRIES.

3. Has anyone got any new ideas that have a reasonable chance of working that can be added to the above?

The government should implement strategies based on the above.

* "What works" means what works for society as a whole. Society includes the thugs and their victims, although most would agree with Mick that the welfare of the thug is secondary to that of the victim. Nonetheless, a society with less thugs, less prisons and therefore less taxes, would generally be considered to be healthier.

Mart, I sympathize with your situation re. your illness but I'm curious. Are you, in fact, able to work but find it difficult to get a job because employers don't seem to want someone who has to be on the toilet 8 to 10 times per day or are you unable to work because of your health?

If the former, why tell potential employers before you get the job? Going to the toilet once an hour doesn't seem too bad to me. It compares pretty well with employees who disappear for 5 minutes each hour to smoke a cigarette.

I hope that you're 'clear' of cancer now and remain so.

 

Craig, I've PM'd you. This thread is depressing enough without us drawing people into the wonders of Telford.

 

Must admit, i can see Mick's point and agree to an extent. Although i realise it is very dangerous to bundle everyone in the same catagory.
Burglary, muggings, car theft and general abuse is rife around here. An estate not to far away seems to bread it, they travel to just outside the estate and seem to think anything they see is theirs, even if it is behind locked doors. I have popped into the local newsagent before, maybe i was in there for 3 minutes, came out and a little scrot is sat on my bike trying to stick a screw driver in the ignition. For the pleasure of pointing out it was my bike, i got threatened with a screw driver and the promise of every estate chav coming for me.
The local hospital seems to be an open sport ground for them, walking in a takin TV's, radios and drugs from the wards. Nurses have been assaulted, some very seriously. One nurse is suffering on going mental health problems after being hit repeatedly with a crow bar, the guy who did it has just been released after serving 4 years of his 9 year sentence
I realy fail to understand their way of life, and they refuse to accept any responsibility for their own actions, bang them up, throw away the keys, castrate them, cut their hands off, I dont care, just get the scum off the streets!

/rant over.

 

Yup, that's an extent alright.

 

Steve, it really makes my blood boil.
There is something seriously wrong with our society when people think it is OK to attack the ones that are employed to care for them.

 

And how exactly would you finance locking up a such a sizable proportion of the population for such a huge length of time? I suspect the underlying reason for what is seen as excessive leniency in non-violent sentences is financial, not “lefty pinko†as you put it. The cost per prisoner is in the region of 35k per year, so your 20 year sentence would cost the tax payer 700000 quid per chav removed… now multiply that by the population of Birkenhead!

Tony.

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

Wayward kids come from wayward parents - what makes the wayward? only curing the root cause will solve the problem.

I feel old when I think about respect for others and self respect - why is this? is respect such a thing of the past?

 

Tony

You can imprison them cheaply by a wide variety of means.

1. Make the conditions spartan....no need for rugs or TV's.

2. Make them work inside doing Mail bags or whatever. You see chain gangs in America, so why not here.

These stiff sentences may be expensive in the short term but I would guarantee that the number of offenders would plummet when that sort of sentence is handed out and hence we would have less cons inside.

Regards

Mick

 

Mick - do you have any points on your driving licence? Obviously the logical extension to what you suggest for burglary is that anyone who gains any points for speeding (or anything else) should be banned from driving for life.

 

Stop talking like a ****

Thugs who break into peoples homes are total scum and should be removed from the streets. Motorists who speed deserve a fine but nothing else.

I was done for speeding in 1976

Regards

Mick

 

what if the speeding was excessive, past a school or maybe a hospital entrance??