Greetings All
Daytona said:
as they tweak and refine other manufacturers designs, and sell it on at four and five times the cost.
or the middle aged obssesives who realistically are probably past their best as far as hearing is concerned anyway, but otherwise have the dosh to go with what is perceived to be the 'best'
Please discuss....
you really want to discuss this? perhaps with your anger management counsellor anyway!
i think this rant says more about your state of mind that the current state of the hifi industry pal. you've never had better value or a greater differential between good and bad choices.
an Arcam cd player still only costs £400
a rega turntable less than £200
epos speakers are £350
rotel amp at £250
if you still aren't getting it can i refer you to
www.argos.co.uk for all your future audio requirements.
Unfortunately text is always open to ambiguity in a way that speech is not, and if I came across as having a rant, or being angry, then that was not the case, and certainly not intended to seem as if it was. Also I perhaps should've made my abbreviations a little more precise - I'm in Australia, or AU, somehow I think AUS, (another way of saying OZ, or Australia) is an abbreviation for somewhere else. I'd love to take you up on your invitation to visit argos etc, but unfortunately I'm on the other side of the world...
As regards "as they tweak and refine other manufacturers designs, and sell it on at four and five times the cost" I still stand by this, as with a few exceptions there does not seem to be any real cutting edge engineering or technical developments amongst many of the specialists - (understandably so as they would not in all likelihood have the budgets to do this) - largely they seem to buy in the same parts from the same manufacturers as the 'mainstream' or even parts from the mainstream manufacturers themselves, tweak, refine, and bake a slightly different recipe/cake/amp/CD player etc, which is then marketed as being something unique which it is arguably not. There's nothing new in this, as similar parallels exist in the auto industry, watch industry etc.
I'm not saying it is wrong, or bad, or even unfair, but sometimes it does appear to be a case of badge engineering, or worse, a case of the emporers new clothes.
As an example, a few years back I bought my first DVD player. I waited for what was then the forthcoming Arcam DV88, because I believed that being a specialist product it would have something extra to offer over alternative 'mainstream' brands. With delays etc, the expected arrival time stretched out from 6 to 18mnths, and I was frankly somewhat dissappointed with it. Yes, it had v/good CD replay (for a DVD player) but the picture whilst good, was not up to the standard of the then top Toshiba, Sony, Pioneer and Denon machines, and the sound on 5.1 surround movies was good, but bettered in particular by the top Toshiba and Sony. It had a cheap plastic fascia, the DVD drive was either an Samsung, or LG (according to my dealer when he opened it up to look at the 'innards' in my prescence, and the remote was essentially a cheap piece of plastic junk.
This player retailed at around the UK thousand pound mark - here in AU/OZ it was three thousand dollars - and a firm price at that, as it was this 'specialist product' with the accompanying aura of prestige and exclusivity.
I eventually bought the then top Sony DVD player, the then 9000ES machine. This had a 2mm thick copper plated steel chassis, with a milled alloy fascia, twin transformers for audio and video, calcium carbonate base damping material for dealing with microphonic vibrations, a hermetically sealed proprietary transport, backlit high quality remote, and a level of build and picture/sound performance that was really only equalled by the later Arcam FMJ27. The Sony retailed at the time at around 1,300 UK pounds, which equated to around 3,500 AU dollars. But without the mystique/aura/ or if you will snob sell of the Arcam, prices were negotiable, and I paid closer to 2,500 AU dollars - cheaper than the Arcam DVD88, and IMHO a much better player on performance, build, and overall quality. The FMJDVD27, which would be its equal on picture grounds, and arguablly superior on sound came in later at $6,500 AU dollars.
I note that the current listing for a B&W N801 is AU $35,000 dollars. I also note that I can get a brand new BMW 118i for that amount of money. When I look at the complexity, and parts cost for a car, as against some lovely veneered wood, some kevlar, paper, cast alloy baskets and some wire etc, I er, start to wonder about VFM, (especially here in OZ) and whether the performance advantages of the specialist makes are really worth it over the more mainstream brands/products.
Perhaps I should've addressed my comments more directly to any AU members on the forum, as undoubtedly different markets will engender a different response, but I still am finding to my ears at least, that the gap between the specialist manufacturer and the 'mainstream' in performance and quality terms is narrowing all the time, whilst the price difference is not. I'm sure this must apply in some way to the UK market as well, but almost certainly other markets such as the US etc.
Hope this helps
Best
John...
I do enjoy showing non-believers how the shelves rattle when you play Laurent Guarnier or James Lavelle too loud 
