Where's the umph?

fair comment. I should give that a go.

I've found happiness at the front end (transport/dac/pre) and recently upgraded the speakers to near full range standmounts.

That just leaves the poweramp. The whole thing works very well, and I'm enjoying the recent speaker upgrade. It don't lack omph (or even umph), the AudioLab 8000S, in 60w poweramp mode, just seems to do its job in allowing the Dax Decade to talk through the speakers.

But, you're right, I have been trying out quite a few poweramps and should give report. I'll tell that tale after some sleep.


(am presently happy with the AS SilverBlue interconnects, and am taking delivery of Goertz cables to try and oust the Nordost bi-flatlines. and have kit on a 4 tier Mana stand)

 

You forgot to mention the room. A bad room acoustic, uneven response, muddy, vague bass, etc. within the space of a few tones can really take away the ooph, even if the recording and other components are trying to tell you something. Souce first might mean room last, but never room never

 

ditton,
i'd agree that you've got your source sorted however i'd suggest that the profoundest effects on what you hear are to be found at the other end of the chain. i'd suggest some funting big speakers if domestically acceptable. an 8, prefereably 10, perfectly 15 inch bass drive unit with a good mid and treble will make you realise what 'full range' really means. (what's 20hz between friends? a hell of a lot actually). as steve says the room is also important but not as sexy as new kit and it can get real ugly real quick. best is to get it as right as possible with the rest of the kit so you don;t need to cover your walls in egg boxes and foam and have strange alienesque tubed hanging from your ceiling (olr at least only a few). if you like your amps leave them as they are but you should at least have a listen to some of the digital switching amps out there, particularly imho some of the ice power based ones - as i'd like to know what they sound like too.
cheers


julian

 

rooms and speakers seem to intrinsically linked. This is most obvious wrt the lower octaves, where bass wavelengths are longer; hence my earlier thread about floorstanders vs standmounts + sub., as the sub can be placed other than where the main speakers achieve best soundstage.

I should add that my I listen to my music in a room that is also shared living room, so there are limitation to what can be done. The EPOS ES22s have similar footprint to JMLab Electra 905s and seem to have added to the bottom without boom. I hear what you say about the 20Hz but might look to a musical sub. that I could tweak as I approach depths.

The Velo DD development takes room correction argument away from the Tact in interesting ways. I worry a bit/lot about the scope that room correction has for changing everything.

the oomph from speakers is I guess the pay-off, as they push the air, but it seems to be that some look to the poweramp to add the magic, and I've not found that appealing.

I'll give some thought to a review of the power-amps I've home demo'd over these past months - these included the SDA Tact and the PS HCA

 

The speaker cabinet is the box that houses the drivers, your room is the box that houses the speaker cabinets - I'd say they are somewhat linked

Get your room right first and then you have a *chance* of putting together a good system. Although, let's be honest, would any of us ever accept that we had actually achieved our 'final' system?

It can always be better.

 

oops sorry I edited earlier message ...

 

to put my point of view simply. music is air movement, real sound / musical events move a lot of air. you move more air with bigger cones q.e.d.
of course there's more to it than that but in general big speakers / cones are more sensitive requiring less brutal power amps to boot.
cheers


julian.

 

...I was only joking...

 

I knew that Mr C. There is an argument that the aim is minimising the noise about the signal, and stands, cables etc can reduce signal or add noise, but as you imply we ought not to expect stands and cables to be a source of excitement! Though I confess that I do have a Mana 4 tier amp stand - the first s/h stand to come along at good price.

Julian, I like the simplicity. Give me more/better air!! Let those waves crash/lap over me and caress my soul ...

I've just been listening to Desert Island Discs on my tranny, and the excitement of those 8 comes across despite the limitations of technology. Must be my forgiving nature.

Its when we sit in critical listening mode that suspension of disbelief is so elusive.

As it happens, my dining room has much better accoustics that the living room, and the kit I relegate to the second system comes a very good second. It was when I first noticed that it sounded 'better' that upgraditis really kicked in.

The front end, especially with Ncode, does gives me timing, resolution and clarity. I'm now getting access to more bass, which seems to be 'fast bass' in speakers that, like the Electras, give good imaging; indeed the speakers are beginning to disappear - as I first experienced when listening to the Living Voice speakers at the Scottish HiFi Show.

I've home demo'd some digital amps and am impressed, but I also ought to act on advice and home demo some serious Class A poweramps - the JHL amps in particular, or maybe give the Sugdens a second chance, as I demo'd them three upgrades ago (Black Gates, Ncode, ES22s).

BUT, I suppose I really ought to investigate the room systematically, perhaps by investing in a Velo DD or a Tact RCS or better still by borrowing one or the other.

The listening room has to remain a living room but it has large curtains, large oriental rug, three big soft chairs - so I could sneak in good looking 'baffle' if I can discover where it is needed. Maybe there is a 'room doctor' I could call upon to come enjoy a bake-off in Edinburgh!

 

i really think its an amps job to be as neutral and un-interfering as possible... gives far better scope for choices of sources and speakers.

Ive been able to slot almost anything into my system since i got the audiolabs safe in the knowledge that they wouldnt interfere with what i was doing. The epos speakers added a bit of pace and excitement to the system and no doubt a new turntable will acheive likewise

 

If your amp isn't reproducing the oomph in the music then it isn't being neutral or un-interfering.

My experience suggests that the amp makes the biggest difference where oomph is concerned. I've heard several relatively modest speakers produce a very surprising sound with considerable oomph on the end of a decent amp (bet you can't guess which one ).

And to get the most oomph out of the amp? Sort the mains!

 

IMO you need synergy accross the system for real oomph but it has to start in the recording studio.

 

I'm not sure recording has that much to do with it. A really good system should sound good (musical, exciting, oomphey and so on) no matter what you feed it. No one would want to listen to old wobbly noisy records otherwise. Or LP12s etc.

 

You can only play whats there? If a system makes a thin recording sound full then a good recording will be overbown?

 

I thought the thread was about excitement and musicality, that doesn't have much to do with how the system sounds. LP12s generally sound rough as imo, very few bass notes etc. but they'll keep me sat in front of them all day because they're enguaging no matter what you play on them.