Why do use a CD player?

You're absolutely right.

But what if I like the more slowly, folky songs....?

...that's the annoying thing about vinyl imho.
I'd like to buy and listen to music that I like, not buy only music that my TT would allow to play without noticeable clicks and pops.
That means I'd better buy uptempo or rock music for example, because then I would have to clicks and pops.

For example:
I love Jewel's first album 'Pieces of you'.
It sounds wonderful on CD through my Naim CDX.

I can imagine it could be quite irritating when I hear only Jewel's voice and some subtle acoustic guitar, accompanied by those clicks and pops

regards,
Alco

 

Gary is right about the clicks and pops - if you're that easily distracted then you shouldn't really bother.

However, I sold my P25 TT last year because I was only getting limited use from it. I also felt that my CDX sounded more fun.

 

Even speaking as someone from the CD side of the fence I agree about the clicks and pops. Unless a record or stylus is really dirty or worn then the little clicks and pops are completely un-important. They do nothing to reduce my enjoyment of the music in any way. It certainly wouldn't (for me) be an argument against LPs.

I think many younger people might think that all LPs sound as hissy and crackly as those "faux" LP samples you get on a lot of trip-hop music where they are emphasised for effect so they sound like a 1920s wax cylinder recording

When I first heard a decent TT again after many years of not hearing one at all I was amazed at how little background noise there really is.

Michael.

 

When they're several times louder than the music you're trying to listen to they're tough to ignore! I do mostly find them less irritating than more continuous low-level background noise though - they're over and done with so much quicker, whereas the background hiss etc just screws everything up.

So my reasons:
1) Side length - can get to listen to nearly an hour and a half of music without artificial breaks to turn the bloody disc over. As nearly everything I listen to is longer than half an hour this is a major issue. In the worst cases (e.g. Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique, Mahler Symphony no 2) this actually required breaking music in the middle of movements (in the case of the Berlioz to avoid spreading the 50 minutes of music onto 2 discs). Even now, when I get to those points on CD or live performance it feels strange not to have to get up and fix the disc.

2) Backgound noise. OK with a mint LP and good kit, I've been shown that this can approach CD, but background hiss etc is the biggest killer of the recording=real illusion. I have several recordings where you cannot hear the softest notes above the surface noise - so you're left wondering what the heck's going on.

3) Related to the above....Dynamic range. CD may not be perfect, but it's clearly better than LP. In a direct comparison of the same recording on CD and LP (Solti's recording of Salome's Dance of the Seven Veils), we set the levels equal at the start of the piece (fairly delicate, quiet and subtle), and had to turn up the LP volume by about 3 levels by the end (none of the above!) to keep the two level matched.

4) Not really checked, but I doubt much of the more obscure music I get now is available on LP.

I am still considering getting a TT though, depending on how bothered I am about checking out the huge classical back catalogue. Even this is a dubious argument, as one of the major benefits of modern technology though is that the major (only?) growth area in the classical music industry is cleaning up old (i.e. pre-1953....out of copyright) recordings, so the music behind all that hash, crackle and pop can now be heard. However, since I've not had chance to listen to many discs in my current CD collection more than twice - I may be better off paying more attention to that. I'd probably be looking at at least a grand or two to get a TT to match my CD playback - and then the same again in LPs to match the repertoire.

 

Out of the 40 second hand records I've bought in the last few months some of them for as little as £1 there is only 2 records I cannot play because the cracks and pops are too noticable.

Also to me LPs last longer as I look after them. My CDs just tend to be all over the place and because of that get ruined. I know that is rather a lame argument for vinyl.

If I had to choose between LP or CD then it would have to be CD. I would miss my tunrtbale a lot though.

 

CD wins with its convenience, compactness and they are pretty durable (though nothing touches MiniDisc for durability). I have been appalled by some CD mastering but I now know that well recorded and produced CDs sound amazing and I doubt a similar price TT would even compete! Take Saint Germain's En Laye Cafe CD for example!

 

Hi,

I use a cd player because I can get cds cheap (£5 or less) or free (DJ & Radio promos). I need something to play these on.

Having a big record collection I need a record deck to play them on. This has been an enjoyable experience for listening to music. 2nd hand records & buying a few record collections has lead to having a cheap medium for music & way to get to hear new, old & different sounds. New records can be expensive but they can be picked up for £5 to £10 (single) & £7 to £15 (double) new.

I do think a lot of the problems with vinyl are reduced with a better turntable setup. Also the same is for CD with a better cd player.

Using both in tandem gives me excellent home entertainment. Both mediums have strengths & weakness, I have a system of both items that gives me more strengths than weakness.

Having said that I do prefer vinyl, overall, to cd.

SCIDB

 

Perfectly worded Dean, my feelings exactly.!

I cannot imagine life without CD, it's just so convenient and sounds fine. It sounds the same everytime you play it, you can take it with you and play it in the car, and you can leave it playing whilst doing other things for as long as you like.

For general listening CD wins out for me but for pure musical communication, I have to admit, the old black stuff has something magical.

I am looking forward to hearing the CD player that can provide that extra something, maybe WM's new creation

 

I'm very happy to have both vinyl and CD. For a music lover I would say that having access to both formats is indispensable: there is so much music available on each format that is not available on the other.
I'm very happy and feel priviledged to have easy access to such an incredible range of reasonably cheap material.

 

Yesterday I went to a exhibition here in malaga to hear Simon Yorke designs turntable,McIntosh electronics,with a McIntosh cd player,and to me they both sounded truly awesome,I think it is unfair to critisize CD,because it is good,its like everything,you get what you pay for,ok diminishing returns do kick in hard,but with the right kit,you can get stunning sounds from the medium.

But on hearing the Simon yorke turntable,I could see where tones is coming from,the two were really quite similar,obviously the surface noise cracks and pops were present,but the quality of sound were similar and it would have been easy to live with both.Maybe the turntable had better bass defination,but the presention of both formats were stunningly real and natural.

 

Come on Graham - why not fess up about that Goodmans (or similar) TT I saw gathering dust in your living room last time I was there

Michael.

 

If I could afford it, I'd buy one just for the aesthetics!

 

As with others, I own both CD and vinyl replay facilities, because it gives the greatest possible choice and access to recorded music. Again, I use CD the majority of the time mainly for convenience and consistency of reproduction. Vinyl is great, and I have no problems with pops/crackles/suface noise, but the one thing which does tend to rear its head time and time again especially with 2nd hand vinyl is tracking disortion or other issues caused by miscentred centre holes or warped surfaces (a lot of my second hand purchases seem to surfer from warped surfaces which can't even be flattened by my TT's screw down record clamp) - when done right though totally analogue sourced vinyl is hard to beat for enjoyment.

Not sure about the something extra bit, but when Robbo, Isaac and myself heard the W850 as it was last week, I have to say I'd love to hear it in my system to see if I could live with it - it really was sounding very good IMO back then considering the outlay - it had the traditional Wadia style bottom end combined with dCS top-end delicacy.

 

To quote a famous phrase 'A week is a long time in politics' apprantely so in audio too. even if it was only running in half bridged mode I'll have to join the Mick parry own up club soon Wm

 

for me aesthetics is the one area where vinyl has cd beat hands down. there are a few cd players that look pretty impressive i.e. a bow, the kalista and the oracle (i think) look funky or have whizzy spinning bits. but pretty much any turntable you care to mention has an architectural and functional beauty that is amazing to behold. my personal favorite is the platine verdier with it's magneticly levitating bits being spun by a seperate motor it looks marvelous, no idea what it sounds like but who cares when it looks that good. does that make me shallow?
cheers


julian

 

Well, I have a very expensive needle habit - but it ain't heroin!!!

I got a CD player and turntable on the same day, so mainly bought CDs in the 90s (got both in 1991). My folks' record player was shockingly bad - there's no way in hell I wanted to play my records on it - even from the age of 6 when I got given my first LP, it never EVER went on that turntable! So consequently I didn't get round to playing it until 1991 - a full decade later!

I prefer the chunkier sound of vinyl, but I HATE end of side distortion; usually it's not a problem but on records played on decks such as the aforementioned VinylEater (TM) you can clearly hear the last 2 mins or so getting rougher and rougher, from where a mid 60s POS autoreturn mech has ground down the groove walls. Yuk!!!

Vinyl cover art is a no brainer; CD's tactileness is awful - too small, too impersonal, too plasticky! I don't honestly think vinyl takes up ANY more space than CD anyway - for a given amount; I reckon the area is about the same, just 12 inch square instead of 5 inch; take 100 LPs and 100 CDs, measure their cubic area and I'd guess they'd be within ~10% of each other.

I use CDs because playing a 12 inch disc on a discman or computer is impossible. Plus, Exeter's lousy for new vinyl - totally atrocious. Solo occasionally get in new stuff but it's pricey. HMV can suck mine if they think I'll pay full price. Why can't we have a FOPP like Bristol do?

I think Pearl Jam summed it up right in the booklet that came with the vinyl release of Vitalogy (which on vinyl came out 4 days before the CD!):
A CD is like bad acid - not for sale or consumption
Viva la vinyl!

 

I agree with alot thats been posted on this. Obviously CD's are more convenient as far as listening on discman or in the car is concerned, although I always think a TT would look special sat on a dashboard! And CD's flawless nature is great and sounds good. I bought my TT last year, a NAD that 'does the job' off ebay. I bought it as I was fed up of missing all the bargains I saw in charity shops and markets. Since then i'm onto a fair stack of wax now and most of what i buy at the moment is on vinyl. Its certainly paid off and I've been able to take risks as i'd hoped by buying albums for peanuts out of curiosity.
My most notable success is with JJ Cale who I wouldn't have even bothered taking the risk with if it had been a £5 cd, but my first JJ album cost 50p and the 3 i've bought since have all been under £4. This guy is great and I put my discovery of his music down to owning a TT.
In terms of the aesthetic, theres also a nicer feeling about putting on a record. I take little pleasure in opening a plasticy case, popping out the CD and placing it with that plasticy kerplink into the tray. But taking out a record, sliding it out and placing a weighty slice of vinyl onto the platter is a great start to sitting down to some sounds. Not only this but it somehow makes things that are not that great feel a lot better. Its hard to explain but when a few freinds were round for dinner last night I felt much better about putting on JJ on vinyl than i would if it had been on CD, somehow people respect the music more if its played through vinyl than on a CD, you can get away with playing anything if its on vinyl. Anyone who's opened a gatefold and had a good look at the graphics while listening to the music can't deny the pleasure there either, hands down it beats a CD, after all designers prefer space to work with and a 12" square is a good start.
Also flipping the disk over halfway through kind of seperates the experience into chapters for me, you don't get bored of a straight 60 minute album as can happen with CD's and you don't have to play the second half if you don't fancy it.
And the sound...i don't find much difference although my system is pretty shitty at the moment.
Anyway get yourself a TT, hit the shops, flick through the cardboard (great feeling), smell it!, tuck that vinyl under your arm (its fits nicely!) and enjoy the pleasures. A row of records always looks better than a row of CD's. have fun.....as long as you stay away from my bargain basements!
HM