Why I hate uneducation envrionmentalists

[rsand]

Yes but its the looks and the noise of the Aston that does it for me, not that Id complain about a GT3.

Whilst we have the US and China doing bugger all about the environment we've not got much hope.

TVR for looks and noise.. and speed.. but also fuel burning, emmisions, breaking down and depreciation. I was very tempted though 911 turbo speed for boxster S money

 

[T-bone Sanchez]

I wouldnt have a TVR, aside from the usual...It wont start, the doors wont open, the wipers dont stay on the screen, the doors keep opening above 80mph, the trim fell off, it wont start again, where's first gear gone?, another bit of trim has fallen off etc etc I think not too have at least ABS is pretty stoopid. Look good though.

Getting back on-topic, I do fear that the days of having 911 turbos maybe coming to an end sooner than we think, and all for the wrong reasons.

 

[rsand]

Dont listen to everthing jeremy clarkson OTT spouts, they are great to drive, and if you know how to drive you don't need driver aids like traction control or ABS. BTW if ABS kicks in your stopping distance WILL increase not decrease.

 

[T-bone Sanchez]

Ive had plenty of dealings with TVR's and it got to the point were I couldnt get anyone to underwrite a TVR. The last one I traded went to a specialist dealer down sarf and bang on cue it didnt make it. Another one I had dropped it windows on its own and wouldnt put them back up, the list goes on and on.

I consider myself to be of reasonable driving skills. Advanced, taught by an ex-traffic cop/rally driver who also gave me plenty of off-the-record tuition, spent many a mile in the early morning/late night periods having fun. I still prefer having ABS on my vehicles and of next year its going to be law so TVR better sort summat!

 

[rsand]

They'll have to buy it off the shelf, my last cat (TT) was just as much trouble as a TVR 2 new door locks, full rear suspension, three new dashboards, windows forever lowering themselves but not being able to start the bl00dy thing in tescos car park with all my frozen stuff thawing was a pain.

 

[Anex]

As has probably been said here already (haven't read the whole thread) it's completely absurd to ban / penalise / tax / road charge vehicles based on the number of driven wheels. How do the "anti 4x4" brigade propose to define what is or isn't a 4x4? Is every Audio Quattro a 4x4? How about a Fiat Panda 4x4, or Subaru Impreza or Mitsubishi Evo? Is a 2wd Honda HRV a 4x4? What if, in reaction to 4x4s being penalised BMW et al made 2wd versions of the X5, ML Class, Touareg, RX300 etc? Would they (no longer 4x4s) suddenly be OK?

As Matt F has said, any special tax should be based on fuel consumption figures or size of footprint or some other non-arbitrary measure that has some environmental relevance.

Michael.

Thats not what its about, SUVs if you like have just picked up the name 4x4. I think everyone involved is for taxing according to engine capacity, hardly a new idea

 

[SteveC]

When all the planes in US airspace were grounded on 9/11 scientists discovered that the tempreture in America dropped by 2 degrees. Let the planes fly again and it was back to 'normal'. Now that is scary.

I didn't believe you but you're on the right track apparently :notworthy: http://www.geotimes.org/june04/geophen.html says variation increased between night and day due to less cloud cover. the peak change was 1C. For once, it's not an urban myth.

 

[mr cat]

one guy even said that due to the carbon emissions getting too high, that we should resort to nuclear power stations...as at the rate we're going, we've only got about 20 years left...

this has only really happened in the last 100 years or so - with the start of the industrial age

 

[PBirkett]

I didn't believe you but you're on the right track apparently :notworthy: http://www.geotimes.org/june04/geophen.html says variation increased between night and day due to less cloud cover. the peak change was 1C. For once, it's not an urban myth.

But the temperature could easily drop or rise by 1 degree anyway, without our help.

 

[I-S]

ABS will increase braking distance but it gives the driver steering control. Yes, anyone considering buying a car like a TVR SHOULD have the level of driver training to a) know how to cadence brake and b) not need to. However, there's no legislation for that unfortunately so anyone who's passed the L test can drive one.

With regard to ABS legislation there is a requirement for all new cars to have ABS now, but it does not apply to models with an annual volume of 500 units or fewer. Thus TVR are exempt.

 

[I-S]

And it manages about 25mpg, not bad for an ancient 2.25l diesel - and black smoke doesn't belch out like some older vehicles.. Even if it did, the resultant global cooling effect balances out the warming effect of the CO2 emissions

Sorry leonard, but per g emitted, particulates have 4-5x the global warming effect of CO2. The worst greenhouse gas, however, is H2O, which is the cause of the effect noted on 9/11. The water vapour produced has a huge greenhouse effect at high levels.

 

[rsand]

an annual volume of 500 units or fewer. Thus TVR are exempt.

Also exempt from noise regs and emissions too for the same reason. Now TVR is under new ownership, if they break the 500 units barrier they will need completely new cars, with major electricals and cpu's to control the emissions, airbags, ABS etc which will ruin a raw car IMO.

ABS will increase braking distance but it gives the driver steering control

Unfortunately few people with ABS know what its for or how to use it.

anyone considering buying a car like a TVR SHOULD have the level of driver training

When someone passes their bike test they have a probationery period before they can ride a powerful bike, unless they take lessons on one. Its a shame there isnt a similar thing for cars, ther would be less accidents.

 

[I-S]

Rob - I think it's per model, so they can produce 499 Tamoras, 499 Cerberas, 499 350Cs, etc...

I have had ABS help me out once when a transit pulled out of a blind gap... see here. But now that ABS is a mandatory requirement for new cars I think that teaching people what it does and what it does not do should be a legal requirement for the L test. People also need to be taught that cadence braking and ABS are INCOMPATIBLE.

 

[T-bone Sanchez]

Ive used ABS a couple of times. Tiff Needle did an experiment between those with leccy aids and those without, the outcome was an eye-opener to say the least thats why Im all for these things being used so long as they are set-up right.

The standard of driving is shocking anyway. Most people in an emergency will just stomp on the brakes regardless of ABS or no ABS. Only the other day I was following a driving instructor (on his own) down an open country lane. He was bloomin hopeless, he had no idea at all of road placement, reading the road, judging the speed, id like to send him out with the guy who taught me plus most of GMP's traffic force, he'd kick his ass. If this is the standard of those instructing then god help those learning.

I thought it was 2 degree's but I'll have to check my facts.

 

[T-bone Sanchez]

Bit more on global dimming:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dimming_qa.shtml

 

[I-S]

Interesting....

Particulates have interesting effects. They contribute highly to global warming by changing the albedo of the polar icecaps. This shows another effect, so clearly there's a lot to it.

 

[rsand]

I wouldn't want to be without ABS myself, cadence breaking is open to driver errors ABS isn't but it is annoying when breaking on an uneaven surface and it kicks in both cars I have owned with it have suffered this. I wouldnt let ABS put me off something like a TVR, however it would have to be a 2nd car though.

 

[michaelab]

Thats not what its about, SUVs if you like have just picked up the name 4x4. I think everyone involved is for taxing according to engine capacity, hardly a new idea

Ok, but then why target SUVs? If it's just engine capacity then a BMW X5 3.0d should pay the same "tax" as a BMW 330d (same engine).

btw, engine capacity is a very poor measure by which to tax cars. Here in Portugal there's a punitive car tax (for new and imported cars) based on engine capacity which causes all sorts of anomalies eg: gas guzzling, high performance 2.0L turbocharged rally specials (Impreza, Evo etc) incurring far less tax than a comparatively sedate and economical BMW 3.0L diesel .

Fuel economy would be a far better measure, as long as there was a reasonably good way to measure a car's typical average fuel consumption (the current EU test cycles are hopelessly flawed).

On the ABS debate: you're far, far, far safer with ABS than without it. It's not just for wusses. I know how to cadence brake but I wouldn't buy a car without ABS. Who can honestly say that in the heat of an emergency stop situation they've had the presence of mind to do perfect cadence braking? ABS will also allow you to steer your way out of trouble whilst braking as Isaac pointed out.

Michael.

 

[I-S]

I know I haven't the skill or presence of mind (yet anyway...) for cadence braking. ABS is a big must IMO, although I also think that people need to be taught what it feels like in operation (because not many people seem to expect it to feel like a pneumatic drill under your foot as it does... I deliberately tested in a deserted icy car park one day to find out) and that the worst thing they can do is to let off the brake when it happens.

 

[T-bone Sanchez]

My first car didnt even have a servo on the brakes, cadence was an essential tool if you wanted to make any sort of decent pace. Even so, as Michael points out you'd have to be seriously sharp to use it in an emergency if your use to modern cars, I would like to think I could do it effectively if I got in a non-ABS motor but I wouldnt like to bet on it. Still, cadence, heel n toe, double de clutch, all good fun when your in an A-reg VW!

What does bug me, and is a problem Ive got with this astra Im using at the mo, is over-sensitive traccy control. Ive just changed the front set of rubber after only 10.5k! Looking at the tyres is clear that its trying to balance the understeer, a job Im perfectly capable of doing myself. Prob is, they neglected the off button. Bar Stewards. The traccy also gives an artificle feel out of a bend and doesnt always allow you to get a true feel for things.