£5 grand faves?

I have not heard the VR4 SR but going by the design...

I see the VR4 SR has a tweeter in the back. I do wonder if it is genuinely a di-pole or really a bi-pole. Depends if they are running the rear tweeter in reverse phase or not.

Either way, it should do a good job with making a deep and airy soundstage, but what you have is still essentially a box speaker. The transparency will depend on the drivers and their implementation... but I would say there is no better way to get rid of box colouration than to not have one!

From what you have asked for and buying commercial products, a smallish pair of electrostatics with a pair of super-subs crossing over around 150Hz would probably be the ticket.

Are you any good at DIY and electronics? I could give you a few pointers for a DIY speaker system that should hit the right buttons.

 

Those electrostatic super tweeters look yummy!

 

I have seen the super tweeters at a show but never heard them.

But how about these?


"Probably the biggest electrostatics in the world" acording to their press.

No they are not screens yes they are electrostics. (that could easily double up as screens)

 

They certainly look interesting! Quite how they would sound I can not imagine (either good or bad). Why, you could have an entire Japanese style house where all the internal walls are really speakers! The sound can then follow you around the house and even track what direction you are facing.

okay okay...

If you have £10k to spend then how about these MEG RL901k (£8k) - http://www.me-geithain.de/index2.html?eng Can't seem to do a direct link, go to products, studio monitors, RL901k.

and a Velodyne DD-12 (£2k) - http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/product.aspx?ID=4&sid=431k716i

The MEG RL901K is an absolutely awesome monitor. It is the most accurate commercial system I know of; featuring concentric wave-front (co-axial drivers), pretty much time aligned and what is essentially a U frame open baffle for bass and even a cardioid bass radiation pattern to reduce room interaction. It goes to 35Hz so it would be a very easy thing to pop in the DD-12 sub to take that down to 17Hz.

 

Listened to a lot have you?

 

Accuracy is not about listening, it about measured performance. I don't know of any other monitor that offers all the advantages the MEG does.

 

Have a listen to a Copland CTA 405 · Valve Integrated Amplifier, speakers try, ProAC D38's.
I've got a CDA823 CDP but that's a bit cheap for you - try a Wadia 302 CDP.

 

So, which ones have you compared them to?
I'm not slagging the MEGs off - I'm off to have a listen to some of the larger boxes shortly - but I'd like to know what you base that interesting assertion on.
Accuracy is also about listening, in the sense that the ear/brain has reasonably well understood limits, beyond which there is little or no practical point in going.

 

I admit I have not directly comapred the measurments to many other monitors, what I have done is compared them to others by the way they are designed mainly. So take my comments with that in mind. This is my thought pattern.

1. They are co-axial. This gives them an excellent time alignment not only at one axis but at any leading to a very good impulse responce and detail retrival. It also means that you can get very well controlled directivity (smooth) at any axis with a careful choice of drivers. It also means they are pretty much a point source for good imaging.

2. Cardioid bass response. This reduces room interaction in the bass by a huge amount. Not only a flatter frequency response but a far quicker decay time.

3. Open backed. This reduces box colouration a lot. It is also very different from a ported design which on a basic level just splurges noise from a resonant tube.

4. Active. Don't need to comment on this one.

All of these are HUGE design advantages over the majority of studio monitors which are a big woofer in a large ported box with a non-coaxial mid and tweeter or horns and are also often passive.

If you want to show me measurements to better the RL901K on the majority of fronts then I will reconsider my comments but unless the theoretical design goals for a speaker are not to be a phase accurate full range point source with the best polar pattern in all frequencies for minimal room interaction and minimal cabinet colouration then I doubt any other design will be such a good all-rounder.

BTW, I think the RL901K is the largest monitor they do. The R900A i a bit bigger in height but it doesn’t have a cardioid bass response or open back so don't compare that one.

 

just been looking at the kingsound/audio electrostats

who is distributing them in the uk?

worth a listen methinks- perhaps with a velodyne sub?

could they cut it with dance music and high volumes?
(slam, dynamics, bass etc)

 

Steve at select audio does the Kingsounds.

The smaller "Queens" are very good and can be driven by a 20 watt amp. (funny that. I build a 20W amp)

They retail at about £1600- £1700.

They are very fast and have a small passive bass unit which integrates well with static pannel.

I play a lot of Kraftwerk and they coped very well with the Electro Kardiogram track

 

In case there are some who haven't read this:
http://blog.belcantodesign.com/2006/08/my-tad-model-2404-studio-monitor.html
Enjoy

 

In the case of a particularly well-sorted design such as the big Westlakes or the Pioneer Exclusive speakers, these things are not a particular disadvantage. Probably because the drive units are so good and the xovers are extremely well designed and implemented (incredible cabinets don't hurt, either).
Saying one loudspeaker is the absolute best without hearing it or really looking at the specifications of others is not an enlightened approach IMHO.
I hear you are designing your own speakers. Listen to what really talented and expert designers of real-world speakers say on the subject. There's a fair amount of info out there, and it pays to be open-minded IMO.

 

I am truly shocked

I've just had a walk around the company where I'm working for more than 15 years and I've realized we have a pair of MEG 904 in our new production facility built around a big Protools console.

They look totally awesome and I think I have never seen such a good speaker stands (their own).

A guy even told me that we have it for more than a year. It's long time since I stopped working at the radio so I usually dont mingle around except that I hate some stupid Spirit & Genelec monitors we have at main suites.

Not many impressions with MEGs as it was very busy there with editing so I couldn't disturb them but I'll take care that I jump in during some of breaks to try to get some idea about how it sounds.

Engineers told me that they hate them because of brutally revealing sound so you have to work on the finest details....

I may take some pics later

 

not too sure of the idea of using studio monitors for the above reason- too forward??

it would appear that my speaker budget has crept up to £10k....the Alon Phalanx/Poseidons are currently top of the list.

does anybody have any experience with these?

or any other recomendations?

c'mon, what are your favourites??

gav

 

the same is usually being said for ATCs which is not the case at all if matched with appropriate upstream components - especially a preamp. i was playing recently with mine and i tested 5-6 preamps looking for a maximum performance. the sound was pretty different in each case.

i don't get this point that speakers shouldn't be too neutral & revealing in a context of high end systems.

 

Indeed, a good studio monitor will only be forward if fed a forward sounding signal. You just need low distortion components up-stream as distortion is what makes things sound forward or edgy in my experience. If you have £10K then definitely check out the RL901K's - unless looks are more important to you than sound?

You can hear them in London at KMR.

 

RL904 looks fab on their dedicated stands, almost like a good danish industrial design

if my company ever goes bankrupt i know what i gonna grab first

 

rumbled!!

compared to some other offerings, i did find them rather challenging in the looks dpartment...
so get thee behind me :JPS: !

how would one build a system around these- in terms of amplification?

would they perform best if built into a wall?

i'd love to see a picture of them on these stands that everyone is talking about. can anyone help?

would they sound as good as the big Alons?

gav

 

In terms of amplification they come with amps built in the back as well as active crossovers.

Definitely would not work as well in the wall. They have an open back with a special configuration inside that means bass is projected from the speaker only at the front. At the back, the bass level is down by about -12dB (quite a lot!). Most speakers in case you didn't realise, will send just as much bass round the back and sides as they do the front - be they a closed box, back or front ported or whatever. The wavelength of bass is so large it will just fold round.

The advantage of the directive bass response of the RL901K's is that you get a seriously tighter, less bumpy and more accurate bass response. As well as less cabinet colouration from the mainly open back. You also shouldn't get a lot of the problems in the impulse / step / phase response that a lot of ported speakers will give.


Very German...