2nd hand Linn Ekos

And I heard demos where Ekos/K18 was clearly better than Ittok/Troika. So an easy choice for my money given the two combinations cost the same. At the time the ARO wasn't available other than as a prototype for review.

Way back I considered the original Naim 'Armageddon' which consisted of the PSU as we know it, a modified Ittok arm mounting and a prototype Prefix. Possibly also something to do with the LP12 bearing. I decided it offended my technical aesthetic sense. It probably worked very well.

Perhaps you should snaffle up another LP12 or two fitted with appropriate arms so we can do some definitive testing?

Paul

 

Blimey, that would be nerdy interesting.

 

Should the choice of arm be dependent upon the choice of power supply???

Funny how linn kit only ever "works" with other linn kit. Other tonearms dont seem to have this problem (at least to the same extent). Perhaps its cynical engineering or perhaps each component is shoring up the deficiencies of the other but that doesnt seem like good engineering practice. It does tie you into linn if you have an lp12 ekos and you cant soften the blow of changing the deck at the same time as you would have to change the arm as well.

 

Just getting you in the mood...

Paul

 

I thought you were an experienced hifi nerd?

Turntable hierarchy runs PSU-TT-arm-cart. Improvements up the hierarchy may be perceived as downgrades if the underpinnings are inadequate. The Armageddon is rubbish, this is clearly audible with an Ekos, so Aro is often chosen. Pretty simple really.

Paul

 

Sorry to contradict you Paul but I'm in the subset with Bub. I made the comparison between the Ittok and Ekos a handful of times, Ekos and Aro separately and all 3 on another occasion. The aro did not totally do it for me, too soft at the extremes but it had what I described then as 'moments of magic'. The Ekos siply seemed like a souped up Ittok and in the process of maxing on the steroids seemd to have left subtlety and emotion somewhere else.

As Bub said, this is an unfashionable view but he is not alone in the view expressed. In pure vfm I felt the Ekos worsened with each successive year. Presumably it's about £8K by now - joke.

Edited to add:
Oh, I should add in all fairness that when I bought and hurriedly returned a Klyde to replace my knackered Troika the Ekos tracked where the Ittok struggled to. The Rohmann I then bought thankfully tracked better too but I can't deny the Ekos earned that particular stripe.

Paul

 

Ok. I'll put you into the Bub set. When are the ATCs due?

Obviously people like all sorts of things but I'm bemused that anybody hearing an Ittok/Ekos demo didn't go 'ah' at the appropriate moment. It was like hearing an LP12 after a Rega Planar 3, but nowadays some people get that 'wrong' too. Anyway it takes all sorts. Live long and don't burn your fingers on those SETs.

Paul (I have a fizzy Quad, bugger. Might have to get the Kans out.)

 

Good to see you in a warm summer mood, made me laugh out loud.

I know what you mean about the dems, the 'ah' never quite happened. Actually it was always depressing comparing my Father's Rega 3 directly to my ever 'improving' Linn, the reality of the gap (how small it was) was a real leveller. I genuinely believe that today's decks such as a Spacedeck or Kuzma, a variety of arms from out there way below Ekos price and a decent £500 or so MC really shows an LP12 a clean pair of heels. But that's been done to death all over the world many times, I know and like all the lawyers in the world, if you ask TT owners to join arms around the world they will never reach an agreement!

Paul

 

Most amusing, PaulR.

 

Hierachy isnt the same as saying two things are inter-dependent in terms of compatibility. I am curious if you can propose a mechanism. It could also be argued that the armegeddon is good but is spoilt through the ekos as it is rubbish. I cant see any way that the actual tonal arm design can be optinised for a specific power supply.

 

Not sure if they were designed that way. This was the result from Art dudley's column in Stereophile when he did a review of the arm/ps on the Linn.

As for Linn kit only working on Linn kit - how many non-Linn decks out there have an Ekos arm and surely Linn would design their arm for their own deck ?

 

I have seen an Linn Ittok 12" arm on a Thorens record deck or was it a Garrard, can't be sure because it was a long while back.

Regards

 

Plenty of people design their own arm for their own deck however as all arms do the same job they are usually inter changeable to a certain degree. An ideal arm would work on any deck. Where incompatibilities arise is where both the deck and the arm designs are each countering flaws in the other. These contrivances will mean that the arm sounds awful on other decks. The recent HFC review of ten tonearms £200 - £2500 placed the ekos as the worst arm even though it was the most expensive with the caveat that it performs better on the linn. Even then my own experience shows it to be less than ideal. Linn arms arent used on non-linn decks because they simply arent any good on these decks. Therefore in some sense their performance is flawed. Other arms have been used sucessfully on the linn. Something like a breuer on a linn will knock the ekos for 6 and the breuer will work well on a wide range of decks. OK its 50% more expensive than the ekos but it prooves the point that the ekos doesnt have to be incompatible just beacuse of the lp12 design.

 

Before Rega started OEMing the RB250 the Linn LVX was standard fitment on a wide range of decks.

How many turntables have you tried an Ekos on?

Paul

 

linn

I have tried it only on the linn - where it doesnt do a very good job IMHO. One would expect it to do its best job on that deck. It is never seen on any other deck so there must be a good reason for it.

 

I slightly disagree with you. I've heard SME (the V and IV) arms on the Linn sound awful but I know these are excellent arms in their own right.

I've heard the Ekos many times on LP12 which is reason why I want one. I suppose if you don't like the Linn sound or the presentation they have then you are not going to like the Ekos.

Tonearm design has moved on - look at the excellent RB1000, or the new affordable SME. From what I can see Linn haven't touched the design of the Ekos for over a decade (give or take a year). Personally if I could afford it I'd love to have a Graham arm on the Linn as I think these are awesome arms but way out of my league.

As for HFC - Michael Fremer in Stereophile while reviewing it on the Linn stated that was price was right and competitive at that price. Most reviews aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Linn make turntables, carts, amps - why should they design an arm that works on somone elses deck ? After all there are enough LP12s out there to put them on.

 

SMEs work on most decks very well - the exception is linn. In fact very little works on the lp12. And the ekos works on very little else. Odd that.

Noone is saying they should design with other decks in mind but its odd it can be outperformed by tonearms costing 10% as much on other decks. They are all doing the same job after all so its bit hard to credit given the price and engineering differential.

The SME V has a powerful well defined bass - on an lp12 which has some distinct limitations in the mid bass the whole thing allegedlly turns into a big mess. Though I myself havent heard it this would seem to be the design strengths of the sme exposing a weakness in the linn deck. Normally such limitations this would lead to a re-evaluation of a deck design rather than fudging all the components so they just work well with each other.

Tonearm and deck design has moved on a long way. I am surprised linn havent redesigned the lp12 from the ground up or released an entirely new product given how far they are behind the pace now. To my ears the sound hasnt really changed over the last 15 years.

The rb1000 on the top rega deck is indeed excellent (I never really rated the planar 2 and 3).

 

I think Linn are more concerned with digital nowadays. Although they have brought out new carts recently and a cable change - the LP12 hasn't changed for a while.

I have to admit to looking at the budget (relative of course) decks by Kuzma and Avid. No big plinths and the ability to have two arms on them for a lot less than a new LP12.

 

Yes I think so - digital and multiroom and HT.

I have heard the top avid deck - sounded quite good. Very much an improved lp12 kind of sound. I thought the mid wasnt up to the standard of the yorke and the brinkmann though. Give the OL resolution a try as well. Good bang for the buck if you get a reliable one.

I have never heard the kuzma ... has any here?

 

yes, the kuzma is very good. I have the arm on my deck. The engineering is superb.

The Stabi is available with 2 arms like you said. It sounds great IMO, but works best on a stable solid platform.