300b recommendation.

Do your research with the Consonance gear, I know quite a few people who are not impressed with it, dealers included!

 

Easy.

Thanks a lot, Chris, for your time. Great stuff. So, amps are often upgraded with Border Patrol power supplies?

The thing is, that I don't want to make a scoop purchase right this minute. Rather, must take a listen to one or two 300Bs to see how I feel. Never heard one before and don't even know if I'll like the breed, yet? So, that's the next step for sure, as per my first post.

Did you listen to any OTHER Altecs before changing from Living Voice? The Valencias must be special to have made the change from such a well regarded speaker (L.Voice).


Best,

David

 

If you are going to the heathrow show next weekend there will be at least two brands of 300B amps there including audio note.

Chris

 

A friend of mine went to the Heathrow show, quite some time ago, and was completely blown to smithereens by a Kondo amp on display. He's never looked back.

 

You won't go wrong with 300bs, IMO exactly what you need

 

..ain't no stopping us now. :latte:

 

Hi. Come meet me at the show, we have our own brand 300B PP amps, cheaper SS and exotic lamm stuff. Audio note will be there with 300Bs, and maybe some others will have 300Bs too.

The show is highend two channel with only 33 rooms so time to listen. It's a chestergroup show and the atmosphere is usually very relaxed, not too many people rushing around like headless chickens. Compared to many shows most of the exhibitors are music first type of people. It's a nice show to be an exhibitor at so the trade are more relaxed than most shows

If you do come to the show, visit the organisers web site and you can print off a discount voucher for entry.

http://www.chestergroup.org/

Good luck with your search, and demand a home trial before you buy.

Chris J

PS. Sorry for the show plug.

 

Thanks Chris,

I'll definitely bear the show in mind and will pay you a visit if I go.

david.

 

Well, IMHO the only thing 'wrong' with single ended amps is the power on offer. You have to have efficient speakers to make them work.

A lot of valve people 'end up' with 300B in a single ended configuration, after trying a lot of different valve amps.

300B as a push-pull, well its a very linear valve, so this isnt a bad idea if you need a bit more power but want to keep things clean sounding.

I can't see you not liking a 300B valve amp when its used with the right speakers. Theres little not to like. Similarly, a great valve amp like the EAR V20 or the Graaf GM20 sounds different, but theres an out-and-out quality with top valve amps which make them all easy to live with.

Border Patrol power supplies are the business IMO. Audio Innovations amps and art audio amps are the most common to have the mod. BP power supplies just give you a massive dose of immediacy and dynamics. A very nice thing to have on your power amps.

I think if you buy your valve amp on the used market (and its a house hold name) you will always have the option of changing it later, and thats what I'd personally suggest.



In my case I heard a few pairs of horn speakers and horn speakers with a normal bass cone to supply lower frequencies. I heard things like Tannoy GRF's, Altec studio monitors, that type of thing. What I liked best was a true compression driver horn, with a big ass bass driver. I would have been happy with Altec or Vitavox, but the Altec was the one that came up first. I hadn't heard the Altec Valencia's before I bought them, but had heard enough similar speakers to know what I would be getting.

Moving from Living Voice wasn't so hard in the end. They are excellent and dynamic speakers, but they don't have the qualities of a compression horn, or the bass of a larger cone.

 

There's some nice Korato amps used at Walrus at the moment too. Both pre-amps, power amps and mono's.

Ive heard these, and they are decent.

http://www.walrus.co.uk/sechand/sechand.htm

 

Hi,

I am using the Canary 300B in push-pull configuration and must agree, they are very clean sounding. The sound is not as rounded or mid-range lush as I'd expect typical valve sounds to be and the extremes are very good. It is like combining the power and attack of solid state with the warmth and immediacy of tubes.

BTW, also using the Living Voice... it seems these speakers are the stepping stone for people towards horns. Maybe I will too someday but unfortunately they don't rock...

JJ

 

pure horns might not rock jj, but stuff them with some conventional bass cones and they play rock music very well.

for the flush, the JBL K2's (also second hand at the walrus link above) will surely rock like a ......expletive deleted. I'd bet my boots on it!

 

The K2's are truely excellent. They are JBL's flagship and are (over) priced accordingly. I believe Walrus have only sold a couple of pairs in a year and half- to studios. The UK RRP is 20K and the yen price (from the Harman Japan website) is 1,470,000 yen including tax.

Does anyone know if these two prices (the sterling and yen) are equal?? I would be interested to know.

 

Chris

Did you ever get to hear the Altec Model 19's or the big Voice of the Theatre A7's. The latter had big compression bass drivers, too

Have you heard any old Tannoys and, if so, what did you think?

d.

 

Hi

Haven't heard the Altec model 19's. From the Altec catalogue below, they use the same sectional horn as the Valencias, and the same size of bass cone. They dont specify the model of the compression driver or bass cone, so it's hard to get an idea of them. Im sure they'd be damn good though.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/catalogs/1982-home/page2.jpg

The Valencia's have the same drive units as the Voice of the theatre A7, but I havent heard them. I'd expect them to sound very similar given that the same components are used. I could be wrong on that. They are probably a little better in the bass due the horn loaded bass driver.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/catalogs/1975-international/page11.jpg

I heard the GRF's and a couple of others.

The dual concentric 15" tannoys sound great to me, with a well integrated treble. They are easier to listen to IMO with a smooth tonal balance, but not as dynamic or as detailed in the treble. With the better units like Autographs and GRF's I couldnt find a used pair for a realistic price (about 3k!) so I didnt pursue them.

Are there any models you are looking out for especially?

 

Thanks. The model 19's are quoted at being 100-103 db sensitivity! The model 14's also look interesting with similar efficiency to the Valencias (more than ample!).

So you think Tannoys are a smoother listen than the Alts. Is the latter not smooth sounding, then?

I've only listened to some very big Tannoys (cannot remember cabinet name) with original 1940's cabinets and monitor golds or reds. They had a non-fatiguing sound perfect for all-night house parties, and particularly excelled with live music. I also found the top end a little too restrained (compared to what I am used to). Perhaps a supertweeter would have helped give the treble a slight lift. I also found that they suffered a bit from boxy colourations. I've heard this criticism before from others.

I suppose there are a lot more old Tannoys floating around than altecs. I'm just beginning to learn about Tannoy so cannot say what models I might be interested in yet. I believe the general rule with Tannoy is the older and bigger, the BETTER.

d.

 

I agree with the bigger is better thing with old tannoys. Helps to prevent boxiness and creates a bigger sound IMO.

With the dual concentric tannoy cones, I always felt they were voiced for a smooth response. I feel (and this is just an opinion) that the horn in a tannoy dual concentric isnt as good as the likes of a vitavox or an altec, so its bound not to have the same detail. Im guessing that some design compromises may have had to be made on the compression driver chosen in order to get it to work well in the middle of a bass cone.

I agree the larger Tannoy's are the epitome of easy listening, with a sound that just says ''crank me up''!

Mine have a control which you can use to attenuate the horn. On low settings it sounds remarkably like a GRF, but I still think the horn is better. On ''full power'' the treble can be too in your face and shouty with some recordings. Mind you, I have a bright acoustic room, so with a more dead sounding room its quite possible less horn attenuation would be preferable.

Im not 100% convinced with supertweeters. Its something I've thought about myself. I was definately thinking about it, but since I angled up the cabinets and played a lot with the attenuation I dont think Im missing anything that I really would want from very high frequencies.

I can really reccomend a day-trip to the emporium. Nick's a horn nut, and has most things there to try, normally including altecs, vitavox's and tannoys.

 

Your advice about day-trip listenings is good. Might try and get down to that heathrow show for the Sunday as well.

You say that Altecs probably have it over the Tannoys when it comes to detail. Well, I'll be needing all the detail I can get, coming from a (soon to be sold) Bryston /PMC rig, which is very detailed. So, Altecs are looking attractive right now. All I have to do now is go and hear some.

Yeah, I know what you mean about wood laminate floors. My listening room has just been changed to laminate flooring and it is causing havoc!! Compared to carpet, the treble has improved to some degree but is also too bright and there is a slight echo with a handclap. I also have to tip toe around the room or else risk disturbing my NAS Spacedeck. Quite disconcerting. Thankfully, I don't have a suspended deck, which could be even worse.

 

laminates are cursed arent they?

wish I hadnt done my room in laminate. Ive helped matters with rugs and soft furniture - but it still isnt as good as a carpeted room.

next house will have a bigger listening room, and definately carpets.

If you go for a compression driver/horn I'd definately reccomend having some means of attenuating it if you have a bright room.

Who knows, when you listen to vitavox's and Altecs and the like - you might not like them at all!

I'll be going to the heatrow show myself, so perhaps see you there.

Someone on the forum usually agrees a time that everyone goes towards the bar to meet up..

Im sure a thread will appear about the heathrow show at some point this week.

edit:
a day trip to nick's would definately give you opportunity to hear multiple vintage speakers and a variety of valve amps...
only thing to be aware of is that its predominantly a mail order company, so the nearest thing to a dem-room is the very large shed (like 40ft) he uses to store equipment in.

 

Chris, can I join you on your next day trip to emporium?