Lt Cdr Data
om
I wonder if stanton btw have anthing to do with pickering, some of their cartrigdes look strickingly similar.
are moving coils actually better than MM's?
- Thread starter Lt Cdr Data
- Start date
3DSonics
away working hard on "it"
Hi,
Well, I myself never really liked them, but the highly regarded "Music Maker" from the cartridge man is a hotrodded cheap grado if memory serves. Grado's are a little less sensitive to (capaictive) loading than traditional MM's.
Ciao T
Ant said:
Well, I myself never really liked them, but the highly regarded "Music Maker" from the cartridge man is a hotrodded cheap grado if memory serves. Grado's are a little less sensitive to (capaictive) loading than traditional MM's.
Ciao T
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2003
- Messages
- 217
- Reaction score
- 0
imho
the best one is the very cheapest hi output wood body cart....prone to humming from transformers or motors though.
the others are ok but denon mc's or highphonics etc always out perform them.
stanton and pickering are one company now.
the best one is the very cheapest hi output wood body cart....prone to humming from transformers or motors though.
the others are ok but denon mc's or highphonics etc always out perform them.
stanton and pickering are one company now.
TubeMan
The K-Tel Beat Goes On!
Hi I'm new to this forum and have been reading this thread with great interest.
3DSonics said:
SCIDB
Moderator
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2003
- Messages
- 2,501
- Reaction score
- 2
Hi
Interesting thread. A good read.
I have never tried a Denon 103 in my system. I have used the Denon dl304 to good effect. I have found that moving coils have given me the best sound I have heard from vinyl.
Many years ago, I heard a Audionote(kondo) Io cartridge. The first time was at shows then at Definitive audio in the late 80/early 90s. I was comparing my Elite Rock/Excalubaur Koetsu against a Voyd/ Helius Orion/ Audio Technica OC9. I didn't think the Voyd combo had my set beat. Kevin at Definitive Audio then put a IO cartridge on the Voyd setup. This stepped the sound up a few gears. It was magical. I would love one today. I have even heard one in a modified Systemdek setup with an Orion sounding good. I didn't know it was a spherical shape on the stylus. All the stuff I have seen points to it being an elliptical stylus.
BTW here is some more comments on the Denon cartridges.
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=46#46
SCIDB
Interesting thread. A good read.
I have never tried a Denon 103 in my system. I have used the Denon dl304 to good effect. I have found that moving coils have given me the best sound I have heard from vinyl.
Many years ago, I heard a Audionote(kondo) Io cartridge. The first time was at shows then at Definitive audio in the late 80/early 90s. I was comparing my Elite Rock/Excalubaur Koetsu against a Voyd/ Helius Orion/ Audio Technica OC9. I didn't think the Voyd combo had my set beat. Kevin at Definitive Audio then put a IO cartridge on the Voyd setup. This stepped the sound up a few gears. It was magical. I would love one today. I have even heard one in a modified Systemdek setup with an Orion sounding good. I didn't know it was a spherical shape on the stylus. All the stuff I have seen points to it being an elliptical stylus.
BTW here is some more comments on the Denon cartridges.
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=46#46
SCIDB
TonyL
Club Krautrock Plinque
I'm very much enjoying the 103 Pro ââ'¬â€œ it comfortably beat my stock 103 straight out of the box and seems to be getting better still as it beds in - it's a lot cleaner and tracks better. I'd love to know what Highphonic do to it, the only obvious physical change is that it now tracks 0.5g lighter and seems a little more compliant.
Tony.
TubeMan
The K-Tel Beat Goes On!
Having now been listening to records since this morning, I think I'm in a better position to evaluate the Denon 103 moving coil against the Stanton 890RM moving magnet I had before.
Bass is tighter but not as extended as the Stanton. However a tendency to midbass boom on some records has now disappeared so on balance the Denon wins here.
Treble is clean, sweet and clear but somewhat lacking the nth degree of air. The thing tracks like a limpet though in the Nima unipivot; excellent!
The mid is absolutely fabulous.
Vocals have stunning clarity and the compete lack of hash and nasty sibilance is most welcome.
Otis, Sam & Dave, Edwin Starr, James Carr and Brenda Holloway just come alive.
Pianos, saxes, guitars and Hammond organs are in the room with you and best of all, you get a sense of real people playing real instruments in a real acoustic space.
Quite frankly this thing plays music like no other cart I have ever owned.
In combination with a non-rigid arm like the Roksan Nima the Denon simply sings.
So yes! On this evidence a good moving coil is streets ahead.
Right on! :MILD:
Bass is tighter but not as extended as the Stanton. However a tendency to midbass boom on some records has now disappeared so on balance the Denon wins here.
Treble is clean, sweet and clear but somewhat lacking the nth degree of air. The thing tracks like a limpet though in the Nima unipivot; excellent!
The mid is absolutely fabulous.
Vocals have stunning clarity and the compete lack of hash and nasty sibilance is most welcome.
Otis, Sam & Dave, Edwin Starr, James Carr and Brenda Holloway just come alive.
Pianos, saxes, guitars and Hammond organs are in the room with you and best of all, you get a sense of real people playing real instruments in a real acoustic space.
Quite frankly this thing plays music like no other cart I have ever owned.
In combination with a non-rigid arm like the Roksan Nima the Denon simply sings.
So yes! On this evidence a good moving coil is streets ahead.
Right on! :MILD:
Last edited by a moderator:
3DSonics
away working hard on "it"
Hi,
Your arm needs more effective mass, try adding weight, I use self adheasive lead tape (B&Q for making fake lead/stained glass windows), around 1/3rd from arm pivot along the arm. Add a reasonable deal but not too much...
Try breaking the rigid link between headshell surface and cartridge. a pair of 1mm diameter solid core copper wires between headshell and cartridge across the top of the cartridge are quite good, it emulates the mounting of the SME and EMT Ortofon headshell combos of the 1960's Pro Arms the Denon is designed for.
Ciao T
TubeMan said:
Your arm needs more effective mass, try adding weight, I use self adheasive lead tape (B&Q for making fake lead/stained glass windows), around 1/3rd from arm pivot along the arm. Add a reasonable deal but not too much...
TubeMan said:
Try breaking the rigid link between headshell surface and cartridge. a pair of 1mm diameter solid core copper wires between headshell and cartridge across the top of the cartridge are quite good, it emulates the mounting of the SME and EMT Ortofon headshell combos of the 1960's Pro Arms the Denon is designed for.
Ciao T
TubeMan
The K-Tel Beat Goes On!
3DSonics,
Thanks for the advice,
I'll try that and let you know what happens.
TubeMan.
Thanks for the advice,
I'll try that and let you know what happens.
TubeMan.
TubeMan
The K-Tel Beat Goes On!
3DSonics
Well I tried out the suggestions and the results were certainly impressive.
The first thing was to get the effective mass of the Nima unipivot up.
Because the nima has a wide bore armtube it was very simple to raise the mass of the arm by pushing a 9" length of lead window strip up the inside.
Then I tried the 2 pieces of wire between the cartridge body and the headshell. Thus treated the arm was put back on the turntable and I set about listening.
Bass was much more extended but just as tight as before so one nil to the modifications.
Top end was not as successful in my system. Although the treble was more extended it also brought with it an increase in the audibility of surface noise and a slight edge which had not been there before.
Removing the wires and rebolting the cartridge back flat against the underside of the headshell restored the balance at the top end but blow me if the treble was not now just as extended but had now taken on a silky smooth and airy quality that had not been there with the arm as standard without the lead strip!
Don't ask me how but increasing the mass of the arm had brought about improvements at both ends of the audible spectrum without the need for the cartridge decoupling wires.
Perhaps the plastic headshell of the Nima provides the right amount of decoupling on its own or I overtightened the bolts first time, I don't know.
No matter, the sound is just superb from top to bottom without a hint of nastiness, hash or grain even on the grottiest Northern Soul singles.
Thanks fo the tips 3DSonics
Moving Coils rule :MILD:
Right on!
Well I tried out the suggestions and the results were certainly impressive.
The first thing was to get the effective mass of the Nima unipivot up.
Because the nima has a wide bore armtube it was very simple to raise the mass of the arm by pushing a 9" length of lead window strip up the inside.
Then I tried the 2 pieces of wire between the cartridge body and the headshell. Thus treated the arm was put back on the turntable and I set about listening.
Bass was much more extended but just as tight as before so one nil to the modifications.
Top end was not as successful in my system. Although the treble was more extended it also brought with it an increase in the audibility of surface noise and a slight edge which had not been there before.
Removing the wires and rebolting the cartridge back flat against the underside of the headshell restored the balance at the top end but blow me if the treble was not now just as extended but had now taken on a silky smooth and airy quality that had not been there with the arm as standard without the lead strip!
Don't ask me how but increasing the mass of the arm had brought about improvements at both ends of the audible spectrum without the need for the cartridge decoupling wires.
Perhaps the plastic headshell of the Nima provides the right amount of decoupling on its own or I overtightened the bolts first time, I don't know.
No matter, the sound is just superb from top to bottom without a hint of nastiness, hash or grain even on the grottiest Northern Soul singles.
Thanks fo the tips 3DSonics
Moving Coils rule :MILD:
Right on!
3DSonics
away working hard on "it"
Hi,
That is possible, it suggests that now too little coupling existed, it is simply the matter to find the right degree of coupling to the headshell to get the treble balance right.
Same principle as subwoofers... You inprove the overall balance. So, the bottom line is to tune the mechanical system right.
More modern MC's tend to build on the principle of redirecting excess energy intonthe arm, in the old days that would not have worked, so the cartridge designers had to use other methods.
Ciao T
TubeMan said:
That is possible, it suggests that now too little coupling existed, it is simply the matter to find the right degree of coupling to the headshell to get the treble balance right.
TubeMan said:
Same principle as subwoofers... You inprove the overall balance. So, the bottom line is to tune the mechanical system right.
More modern MC's tend to build on the principle of redirecting excess energy intonthe arm, in the old days that would not have worked, so the cartridge designers had to use other methods.
Ciao T
That's fascinating and with (my) hindsight so obvious. For years I've struggled with unnaceptable (to my ears) distortion at the end of the groove, but not really questioned the widsom of traditional alignments. Hadn't really thought beofre that there's more vinyl available for the modulation at the beinning of the side in comparison to the end of the side.3DSonics said:
Time to go and make a custom protractor, I know I've some excel spreadsheets downloaded with Baerwald-Lofgren calculations.
What about the articles at TNT by Geoff Husband? Exposing the VTA myth?3DSonics said:
3DSonics
away working hard on "it"
Hi,
What about it? The actually cut SRA varied over time by +/-10 degrees. If Mr. Husband cannot hear the effects from that, what can I say?
A Friend has a Triplanar and quite convincingly demonstrated the effects of small adjustments with his cartridge (an expensive Clearaudio one).
Ciao T
ChrisPa said:
What about it? The actually cut SRA varied over time by +/-10 degrees. If Mr. Husband cannot hear the effects from that, what can I say?
A Friend has a Triplanar and quite convincingly demonstrated the effects of small adjustments with his cartridge (an expensive Clearaudio one).
Ciao T
