Bi-Wiring, any point?

bemcsa said:
the dealer said that it separates harmonics travelling along the cable at different frequencies
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That was/is the standard justification but IMO this is utter rubbish. Both cables will carry the full frequency range signal; you don't have seperate low and high frequency signal until after the crossover. Bi-wiring may IMHO make a difference due to other reasons, but not by this proposed effect. Now if you were to stick the crossover near the amp and then have long wires running from there to the speakers then you actually would be seperating the signals, and so could perhaps optimise cable choice for each seperately.

Like Michael, I'm lucky enough to have speakers from a company which doesn't bother with more than a single pair of speaker terminals :).
 
I've got to say here, the reason given above for the use of Bi-wire is quite laughable.
I also agree with a lot of the comments thus posted, though I will say, I have had clients systems that suited bi-wire (a 2-4 configuration) over a single wire with matching Jumpers, and vice versa. It is down to the indivdual system.
Personally I used a 2-4 bi-wire up until 2 weeks ago, I have now gone to single/ jumpers, I have redesigned the cable I was using into a different format, however I'm going to be trying the new version of the bi-wire later this week & will share my findings with you. Wm
 
bemcsa said:
I would be interested in anybody's experiments with [BI-AMPING] speakers. Is it better to:

- spend the money on a good quality single [AMP] and use [??] on the speakers

- its totally dependent on the speakers and amp being used

- its only [WATTS], so makes no difference
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I've re-phrased the [QUESTION] ....
 
Now bi-amping is very different proposal. Its only one step away from seeing the light and having off board active crossovers. :D

My suggestion would be to pick up a cheapish used power amp, theres currently a Rotel 971 for under 100 notes on ebay and see what happens, no major loss as you can sell it on.

If you like your speakers then its a way to fine tune them to your room and surroundings perfectly. More watts equals better control and that simply means a better sound.

Does your pre amp have two sets off signal outs?

Edited to add this link Bi-amping magic
 
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Thanks for the link to Rod Elliott article. However, he gave the impression passive bi-amping is not much of a worthwhile tweak either. See a small section from the webpage below.

"Do I need to disconnect the passive crossover in my speakers?"
The answer is ... YES, otherwise you are not really biamping at all.
Generally speaking, the mid to high section needs to be retained since a typical biamp setup will only eliminate the bass to mid+high network. These sections are nearly always completely separate networks, although it may not seem like it when you first have a look at the board.

Equally important is the selection of the electronic crossover frequency. It must be the same as the original, within a few 10s of hertz. The only exception is where you might obtain information from the manufacturer of the speaker that allows the frequency to be modified. In general, I strongly suggest that you determine the original crossover frequency, and stay with it.

When the crossover is modified, make sure that you retain all the parts, along with the original connections. A drawing (including all component values) and photograph will be of great assistance when you want to restore the speakers to normal prior to selling them - it is unlikely that you will ever want to do this for your own use - not after you have enjoyed the benefits of biamping for any length of time.

Passive biamping (where two amplifiers are used in a bi-wiring connection) is, IMHO, a waste of money. Although there may be some moderate sonic benefits, they are not worth the expense of the extra amplifier.
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It seem you need to perform some surgery to your loudspeakers to make them active if they are designed for it in the first place.
 
Wolfi, yup major speaker surgery is needed to do a "proper" job, but passive bi-amping can (and often does) give better results than using a better quality single amp and jumper leads as previously discussed, better add IMO.

By using amps that sync well but have different strengths, e.g valves for the top end and digital for the bass a really powerful combination can be built around the original characteristics of the speaker and room.

But my point was as long as the pre has two outs for the outlay of a couple of hundred quid, (which would be regain-able if the bits were sold on) a more substantial upgrade could be had than by adding the same amount of money to a single amp upgrade. And hey whats this hobby for if not for experimenting!
 
I'm biwiring, but only because the cable I got is biwire (VDH Teatrack) and I thought biwiring was a good idea at the time, though I have to say I haven't experimented.

I have a 4-4 setup though (?), in that theres 4 connections at the speaker end and at the amp end, but thats because my amplifier has 2 sets of speaker outs which can be used simultaneously to drive 1 set of speakers...not really bi-amping.
 
I already have the means to bi-amp, having a cheap(ish) cyrus 7 which is temporarily doing duties as a preamp and an evo 4. However, I would imagine (although I haven't tried) that if the cyrus 7 were to take over the HF end, it would be a big step down from the evo 4 in bridged mode doing HF and LF. I could try the evo 4 in four channel mode and bi-amp, although I believe that this is not the preferred configuration

Looking to the next step, I intend to get a new (well second hand) CDP, possibly with volume control and drive the evo4 direct. Another approach would be to buy a valve pre-amp to try and smooth out the top end.

The more interesting route would be to get a valve preamp and power amp (or a valve integrated amp), so the valve amp could drive the top end and the b/c the bottom. In theory you would have the bass drive of the b/c together with the warmth of a valve top end (or a horrible mess) Has anyone tried this? I realise that this is not an option for those with single binding posts :p

I suppose this could be further improved by removing the x-over from the speakers and going active. Are there devices available to do this and how would you balance the gain of the 2 amps?
 
ditton said:
you have
http://www.belcantodesign.com/prod_evo4.html
??

I would advise thay you stop worrying about amp/b-wire/speaker and focus on front-end.

cyrus 7 as pre-amp is weak link for a start, as you suggest.
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Yes, I have just bought a second hand evo4 to replace my cyrus 7. The cyrus is being used as a preamp as a temporary measure until I get a new front end.

The reason for the bi wire question is that my current cable is rather crap and I was wondering it if was worth getting a single wire or bi-wire to replace it. I am not a cable sceptic, having noticed a big difference when trying different cables.

Since I only use CD as a source, I do have the option of a CDP with volume control or a valve pre-amp to protect my sensitive ears from top end harshness. Maybe the valve, solid state bi-amp idea was a step too far, but I would still be interested to know if anyone has tried it.
 
The more interesting route would be to get a valve preamp and power amp (or a valve integrated amp), so the valve amp could drive the top end and the b/c the bottom. In theory you would have the bass drive of the b/c together with the warmth of a valve top end (or a horrible mess) Has anyone tried this?
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I have. A Sonneteer digital integrated driving the LF and a Leak Stereo 20 the HF. Worked pretty well, although it isn't something I've found the need to do as a permanent setup.

-- Ian
 
If you can do without a pre then definitely get a CD with a pre out and drive the BC direct, it will sound better whilst reduce boxes and cables.

Bi-amping with the Cryus 7 would I'd imagine give a rather odd and unbalanced result.

There are some good deals to be had on non current Wadia CD players with pre outs.
 
but if you *dont* want fewer boxes then get a dac with a pre-out (I have a Dax Decade obtained from AudioSynthesis direct) to add to a separate CD transport. One advantage of that is the ability of the dac to decode digital signal from new sources, eg Internet and Sky broadcast. There are reasons, much more persuasive that bi-amping/cabling, for separating dac from transport. Some argue that you can use a DVDplayer as transport.

on the other hand, I could help you out by relieving you of the evp4
 

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