The Devil
IHTFP
Yes, RFI rejection is probably very important, I agree. I've heard small but worthwhile differences between cables, but I'm not totally convinced that the cable itself is responsible for any difference.
cardas golden reference or audience Au24
- Thread starter amir
- Start date
The Devil
IHTFP
Since the question is about cables, I think you can.
The biggest differences I've heard are generally down to brightness, too many bright cables and you get a very bright system. Interestingly enough I believe WM's old range of cables got brighter as he went up the range, as unbelievable as it sounds, this was the same for his digital interconnects. Mind you both WM and Alex heard the difference between a green pen treated disk when I didn't (listenning at the same time). The biggest difference I EVER heard was between QED Profile Silver 12 and Chord Odessey, to anyone who says they can't hear ANY difference I really really recommend getting hold of these two and trying it.
Nomoretweaks
Tourist on tilt
Then buy a cheap cable and spend the rest on your room acoustics. It will give you more than any "high end" cable. Otherwise go for Transparent, guys are right.
The Devil
IHTFP
Get good plugs.
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
You don't have to spend any where near that to accquire better performance than any of those listed
Last edited by a moderator:
amir said:
Which of the two is worse: asking or paying such price?Did you had the chance to sort out the bad current issue?
What do you mean by better performance?wadia-miester said:
Actually I would me much more interested in knowing exactly what differences you heard on the above listed cables and on which system did you test them on.
With affirmations like
I personally really don't have a clue what you mean and I don't see any substance (contents) in these phrases.
And by the way: I believe you're not the only one who is a music lover.
Also please list your choice: in other words the cables which are much cheaper then those listed above and which give "better performance".
I'll be at the Heathrow show next week. I would like to try a demo version of your best cables. Could you please organise that?
thanks
and best regards
titian
kennyk
thecrossovernetwork.com
Tim F said:
I simply cannot accept that cables are 'too bright'. people bang on about bright this and the like.
cables are passive, not active, so they cannot add anything to the sound, only attenuate things. all cables are, are resistors, but with elements of inductance and capacitance. so if a cable sounds 'too bright' then surely it is taking less away at the higher frequencies than one which doesn't. or, more simply is showing you what your system can do at the top end of the audible spectrum.
my first 'quality interconnect' was vdH D102. instanltly I could hear more detail and bass. the cable wasn't boosting the bass, so the old cable must have been attenuating it more.
You are trying to get recommendations for a cable from persons who don't know your taste and without knowing what taste they have?amir said:
Also the fact that you can buy the coherence for less than 3000$ (for me still quite expensive) shouldn't justify alone the purchase. As I read in other treads you don't seem to be settled with your other components. I would first get the components, inclusive LS if they are also in question, before thinking about expensive cables. And yes as said by other members, you may get much better sound quality if spending that money in acoustic treatments.
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
Titain
A Music lover in the sence of presentation takes a back seat to involvement and immursement into the material being protrayed & total cohesiveness & focus of the sound. Its a personal thing how we each enjoy music, but you have to realise creating a system to give yourself (myself) exatcly what you wish, is just for that person and THEIR preferneces nothing more
Where the total obession with placement of instruments and staging the size of football pitches (layed in some cases I grant you). With bass to frighten the Devil himself takes over.
I have several clients with systems in excess in six figures, while these systems are ulimately impressive, with huge staging you drive a bus through, stunning realism, neuonses, and micro-detail top to bottom frequency responces, major presence and limtless power (yet strangely their all seem to lack 'real dymanics?'). They ALL fall short (IMO) of total musicallity, togetherness, (Cohesion), involvement and that Make you want to sit and listen for hours too ALL types of music not just one or 2 kinds.
I just feel after spending such sums, the remain amazing yet ultimately disppointing too
Inviarably these systems are set up for Classical/Female Vocals/soft Jazz. PLay some Led Zep on there, All above Eve, Stranglers and they just fall apart.
Music is not just these forms But ALL Genre's.
I know of a gentleman who's system is rather special (his mains equipment extents to a rebuilt basement & £50K in regeneration), yet his total music collection entends to 45 pieces.
A minority yes, a serious wow factor, difficult to get your head round for a while, however when you do, its a one trick pony, albeit a very good one. Yes thats just my view point I'll grant you.
AS for the cables discriptions, I'll translate the WM speak for you
AU24, owned and tried in 6 different systems over 4 months, fully burnt in and with matching au 24 jumpers.
Compared to the reference that was being used at the time system was wadia 270/27ix (stock), Spectral 360 mono's and egglestone works andra's
AU 24 gave a more rounded and polished performance, the upper frequencies were more kertailed, less open, not so much detail, but no nasties rolled off if you like/.
Very neutral presentation, not giving any pluses or miniuses to the freq. extremes, bass was lighter and less controlled, and extention was lacking too. Timing wasn't the best, but had nice depth of field.
Size was neat as was its installation. price of cable it was comparable IE £750.
The Cardas, is another safe hifi cable, it has a warmer & fuller sound, more body, (think warm glow), its detail isn't as good.
The staging was bigger, both width and height, again no top end nasties. Bass was full and rich, nice texture with this cable, but I feel it gain this at the sacrifice of the the detail, and cohesiveness. Again Timing wasn't really its forte'
The VDH, this cable really didn't make impression at all, the best discription is non discript.
I believe Midlife Crisis used it before trying Transparent Ultra, then finally settlig on something else
The F/A, was certainly a detial miester, good tonal balance, very open and airy, lots of 'sparkles in the corner
'
" Owww I can hear the piccolo in the top right corner, 47 rows back" type thing.
Mid band was neutral, with a pleasing tonal palette
Bass while neither full nor thin, didn't extend too deep, and the timing aspects called into question again.
A good hifi cable.
The room is 26 long, 18 wide, 12 high, the speakers were 3 foot off the rear wall on Stillpoints. Only absorbtion panels used on the one wall.The system was using shunyata mains leads and th Hydra 8 power conditoner
Equipment was on a Pogode Finite element rack (natural maple) & still points.
The control cable was Acoustic Zen Hollogram II cst £750 retail, The Au24 with jumpers was £700, the cardas was £1200 and th F/A was £1800 ish.
AS far as demo cables go please PM me, Wm
A Music lover in the sence of presentation takes a back seat to involvement and immursement into the material being protrayed & total cohesiveness & focus of the sound. Its a personal thing how we each enjoy music, but you have to realise creating a system to give yourself (myself) exatcly what you wish, is just for that person and THEIR preferneces nothing more
Where the total obession with placement of instruments and staging the size of football pitches (layed in some cases I grant you). With bass to frighten the Devil himself takes over.
I have several clients with systems in excess in six figures, while these systems are ulimately impressive, with huge staging you drive a bus through, stunning realism, neuonses, and micro-detail top to bottom frequency responces, major presence and limtless power (yet strangely their all seem to lack 'real dymanics?'). They ALL fall short (IMO) of total musicallity, togetherness, (Cohesion), involvement and that Make you want to sit and listen for hours too ALL types of music not just one or 2 kinds.
I just feel after spending such sums, the remain amazing yet ultimately disppointing too
Inviarably these systems are set up for Classical/Female Vocals/soft Jazz. PLay some Led Zep on there, All above Eve, Stranglers and they just fall apart.
Music is not just these forms But ALL Genre's.
I know of a gentleman who's system is rather special (his mains equipment extents to a rebuilt basement & £50K in regeneration), yet his total music collection entends to 45 pieces.
A minority yes, a serious wow factor, difficult to get your head round for a while, however when you do, its a one trick pony, albeit a very good one. Yes thats just my view point I'll grant you.
AS for the cables discriptions, I'll translate the WM speak for you
AU24, owned and tried in 6 different systems over 4 months, fully burnt in and with matching au 24 jumpers.
Compared to the reference that was being used at the time system was wadia 270/27ix (stock), Spectral 360 mono's and egglestone works andra's
AU 24 gave a more rounded and polished performance, the upper frequencies were more kertailed, less open, not so much detail, but no nasties rolled off if you like/.
Very neutral presentation, not giving any pluses or miniuses to the freq. extremes, bass was lighter and less controlled, and extention was lacking too. Timing wasn't the best, but had nice depth of field.
Size was neat as was its installation. price of cable it was comparable IE £750.
The Cardas, is another safe hifi cable, it has a warmer & fuller sound, more body, (think warm glow), its detail isn't as good.
The staging was bigger, both width and height, again no top end nasties. Bass was full and rich, nice texture with this cable, but I feel it gain this at the sacrifice of the the detail, and cohesiveness. Again Timing wasn't really its forte'
The VDH, this cable really didn't make impression at all, the best discription is non discript.
I believe Midlife Crisis used it before trying Transparent Ultra, then finally settlig on something else
The F/A, was certainly a detial miester, good tonal balance, very open and airy, lots of 'sparkles in the corner
'" Owww I can hear the piccolo in the top right corner, 47 rows back" type thing.
Mid band was neutral, with a pleasing tonal palette
Bass while neither full nor thin, didn't extend too deep, and the timing aspects called into question again.
A good hifi cable.
The room is 26 long, 18 wide, 12 high, the speakers were 3 foot off the rear wall on Stillpoints. Only absorbtion panels used on the one wall.The system was using shunyata mains leads and th Hydra 8 power conditoner
Equipment was on a Pogode Finite element rack (natural maple) & still points.
The control cable was Acoustic Zen Hollogram II cst £750 retail, The Au24 with jumpers was £700, the cardas was £1200 and th F/A was £1800 ish.
AS far as demo cables go please PM me, Wm
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To add my tuppence worth, The Cardas and Audience are in reality highly detailed in my experience with very extended and natural frequency extremes. Neither is in any way rolled off.
I have found some cables to offer what at first hearing appears to be a more detailed presentation but on extended listening, this is acheived by curtailing the upper frequencies, in effect acting as a low pass filter. This seems to have the effect of focusing on the midrange and accentuating the detail. this would work very well in some systems but not in others.
Likewise the Cardas, due to the body it imparts, can sound dull in certain setups. The lesson is that cables are incredibly system dependent and therefore opinions on their performance are as good as useless. Audition in your system is the only solution.
In the end, Titian is spot on when he mentions room treatment. this will have a far more pronounced effect on your end result than some cables IMO. But if you are set on buying cables, do try Transparent, Dynaudio Ocos speaker cable, and some Coherence products. With the latter at least you aren't paying for the marketing budget.
I have found some cables to offer what at first hearing appears to be a more detailed presentation but on extended listening, this is acheived by curtailing the upper frequencies, in effect acting as a low pass filter. This seems to have the effect of focusing on the midrange and accentuating the detail. this would work very well in some systems but not in others.
Likewise the Cardas, due to the body it imparts, can sound dull in certain setups. The lesson is that cables are incredibly system dependent and therefore opinions on their performance are as good as useless. Audition in your system is the only solution.
In the end, Titian is spot on when he mentions room treatment. this will have a far more pronounced effect on your end result than some cables IMO. But if you are set on buying cables, do try Transparent, Dynaudio Ocos speaker cable, and some Coherence products. With the latter at least you aren't paying for the marketing budget.
The Devil
IHTFP
Tony, you are knitting with mist, old boy. Good effort, though!
I totally agreewadia-miester said:
I don't understand what this has to do with the subject over here but I had also heard such systems and they also don't suit me.
Thanks for the translation. I'm happy with that. The only things which are missing are your alternatives which give "better performance".
The Devil
IHTFP
Utter tosh, Tony. A system which can cope with orchestral music will play anything else with ease.wadia-miester said:
The cables Tony suggests are better for his balance.
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
Well James, thats your opinion. I have mine
The Devil
IHTFP
The difference is that your opinion is wrong, because you don't know much about "classical". If you actually ever listened to "classical", you wouldn't lump it together with simple stuff like "female vocal*" and "soft jazz**"
* what is this?
** sounds disgusting
* what is this?
** sounds disgusting
I didn't know you were in classical!
