Class D - Interesting reading

Originally posted by michaelab
I think Joel was referring you to the several thousand components the music goes through before it even gets to a master tape so a couple extra in your amp isn't going to make much difference ;)
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I think that merlin makes a valid point here. Even though the music has been through a load of junk before it gets to us, we still try (generally obsessively on this forum :rolleyes: ) to make the absolute most of what's left.

If we really took the view that 'a couple extra in your amp isn't going to make much difference' (wink notwithstanding) we might as well give up on our systems. What would we do for aggravation then?
 
Actually Michael, I wouldn't place myself in either camp. I wouldsay however that there are definate advantages to eliminating phase shifts in the replay chain.

Imaging truly does take on a definition and secivity that makes you realise just what is on the disc in the first place, and how much of it is masked by the problems associated with standard amplification.

I ain't saying it makes for a better music system. But it certainly has it's plus points. It all comes down to the age old "preserving accurately the information on the disc" arguement. The more active components you have in line, the more chance there is for phase shifts, and other deletorious electrical inaccuracies.

I like Rotel so what do I know;)
 
well, another pointless drag on of a thread, those that have heard them know what they are about, either buy one or don't (or in mikes case build one), simple really.
Just for the record they can sound bloody good too, but then I'm baised, I own a few :)
Also for a small outlay then can be made to sound even better.
 
Originally posted by merlin
Joel, the immortal words "get the funk out of my face - get the funk out of my face" spring to mind.

Besides which, what's that got to do with amplification?
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Merlin, ever your pleasant self I see.
Michael has succinctly explained one side of the coin. The other is that even after travelling through all kinds of EQ, gain and output stages, not to mention miles of non-wanky wire, the "delicate" signal (copyright every audio magazine in the world) can manage to emerge unscathed at the master.
Food for thought, then again maybe not, as you guys are neither hungry nor curious...
 
Originally posted by joel
Merlin, ever your pleasant self I see.
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Joel,

If you know the song it's taken from, you will appreciate the jolity behind the response;) No offence intended.

I guess the point is that once it has emerged onto the master, it should sound good to the engineer's ears. It seems sad to f**k it up after that if you can avoid it:confused:
 
merlin, implicit in your posts is that TacT (and similar approaches) necessarily f**k up the signal much less than any other kind of audiophile equipment of the same calibre (and price :eek: ). I'm afraid I just don't buy that.

btw, is TacT a US or Danish company? I always though they were US but then I saw this:

http://www.tactaudio.dk/

..which seems to have info on products (like their new analog controlled PWM amp ;) ) that the US site doesn't even mention.

Michael.
 
merlin, implicit in your posts is that TacT (and similar approaches) necessarily f**k up the signal much less than any other kind of audiophile equipment of the same calibre (and price ). I'm afraid I just don't buy that.
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Actually Michael, Merlin may well have a point here, his Tact setup was truly astonishing in a hifi kind of way, incredibly transparent.
 
I'm not saying TacT is bad (I've never heard it) just that I doubt it's necessarily better than anything else at that price. However, a recurrent theme amongst people who have heard TacT gear is that it has no life. Real music has life. If TacT stuff is so accurately reproducing the original with no phase distortions etc, etc. then where's the life gone?

NB: Big Disclaimer - I'm only going on what (many) other people have said about TacT.

Michael.
 
However, a recurrent theme amongst people who have heard TacT gear is that it has no life
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Thats why I said in a hifi kind of way. IMO, its a bit harsh to say it has no life, probably fairer to say that its can sometimes be a bit more reserved. Its bloody good at what it does, you should try get to hear a properly set up system sometime. (somebody on the forum has just bought a full setup;) )
 
Michael,

to be fair, I'm not saying it's better, I hope I made that clear earlier. What I am saying is that it's extremely good at certain things, transparency and imaging being the main ones.

It is so convincing here that the argument that active and passive components in the amplification chain, and the attentant phase shifts, cause degradation of these qualities, would appear to hold water. I've certainly never heard conventional amps that offer the see through imaging of the Tact's. Of course that is not the be all and end all of a music system.

Tact's SDA looks interesting. It was originally conceived as a dedicated subwoofer amplifier, designed to do bass (an area I found the S2150 to be very accurate in but ultimately lacking in groove) Only time will tell if it 's any good, but reports from Bristol seem to suggest it's quite fun and sensibly priced at half the price of most class T amps.

Put into perspective, potential Tact owners are unlikely to come from the Groove school of thought. Owners of dCS, Levinson and other hifi kit however would probably cream;)
 
Originally posted by wadia-miester
Just for the record they can sound bloody good too, but then I'm baised, I own a few :)
Also for a small outlay then can be made to sound even better.
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I am afraid to even ask how... :duck:
 
Originally posted by merlin
Put into perspective, potential Tact owners are unlikely to come from the Groove school of thought. Owners of dCS, Levinson and other hifi kit however would probably cream;)
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I'd definitely own dCS again, but have no aspirations towards Tact ownership (I did sneak a quick listen in the Tact room at Bristol this year again and it was an improvement on last year but... ;) )

On the subject of fewer components in the signal path leading to a more transparent sound, I'm not quite sure I'd agree, well not when it comes to (ultra) high-end. The same result can be achieved by different means when cost restraints are less of an issue e.g. PWM amplification does not alway have it all its own way in cost is less of an issue teritory IMO. It's not what you've got but what you do with it, but I'm sure someone else has already said that earlier on in this thread.

Does a certain LC Audio Patriot amp sound any less transparent than a GamuT D200. I don't think so, IMO. One design has only 2 MOSFET transistors in the output stage, where as the other has a whole bank of what 25+ transistors in a follow up arrangement in the output stage.
 
Henry, interestingly the Gamut is known for it's expansive imaging. Could that be partly the result of it's very simple signal path? I don't know, I'm just intrigued. As a former dCS owner, I konw there are qualities that are quite exceptional, although I doubt I will ever own some again, the price performance ratio is not right to these jaded ears these days.

Again it's a case of finding the qualities that appeal to you, but the Tact gear certainly has some that I miss, and which I feel are class leading (not bad given the price). I have seen a few comments regarding the Bristol show setup being an improvement. This is encouraging, although I must add that it was exactly the same units as last year being used, so maybe it was just a case of different mood/room/competition.

The SDA on the bass does seem to give the sound a bit more life and bounce. it retails for just £1199, which, if it is really good, suggests prices are coming down. Good news.

So cat out of the bag time, I'll have a full Tact setup again soon! The reason has as much to do with circumstances as anything. I am moving to a small flat in an old listed building, I need a system that does not need to be played loud, and that controls room resonances to prevent the sound leaking out of the room. This is one advantage of the RCS system, and the low noise floor of the S2150. But first, a trip to warmer climes beckons! So I wish you well and may well check in at odd times of the day!

Cheers
 
Merl,

Yes, I would strongly suspect that the Gamut's imaging abilities are largely attributable to it's simple signal path design. Although the fact that it's also dual mono throughout internally (even down to having 2 transformers) would also be helping too I'd say. What I was trying to say though, is that there are other more complex designs out there which I'd say achieve similar sonic results, although very few at a similar cost.

Price/performance ratio is poor on brand new dCS kit, I have no reservations on agreeing with you there. Can some of the what I still currently view as some of the more elusive quailities of the dCS kit be attained elsewhere for cheaper (s/h)? Well, I hope so, I'm about to find out... :)

Another trip abroad? Are you (planning on) moving out of the country or something? :confused: What speakers are going to be used with the new Tact set-up BTW?
 

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