Copper, Silver or other

Having limited experience trying different cables... I found silver cabling initially gave the impression of a very "vivid" sound - like the music had been unveiled, but after a while I concluded this was kind of a trick. Also bass response was reduced. I have found copper cables to provide the most natural balance, though I have had decent, cost-effective results with silver coated copper wire s/cables (eg. Chord Co. Rumour 2). A friend swears by his "gains" from rewiring his speakers with silver jewellers wire! I'm not convinced.

 

Sorry, let's see if this works

Greg

 

It was not my intent to start or reopen a controversial debate regarding cables so I will apologize for that. Those that are in the “cables make a difference” corner thanks for the inputs.

Greg

 

So Greg, you must do the DCT work for Tony then? . I wondered how the hell he knew you were "in the biz".

Michael.

 

To be honest Michael I have never met Tony. I do DCT for some Hi-Fi companies in the UK and and on the continent, but Tony is not one of my customers.

Greg

 

Welcome back Greg.

I remember when you posted first on the hifi choice forum!.. and in fact the article in hifi news that brought the subject of cryogenic freezing back to life.

Maybe it would be a good idea to repeat the science behind DCT for those of us (myself included) who's memory isnt so great..

I remember from the article the effect is related to the crystal lattice structure of copper (or something) and the fact that copper is 'shocked' when made?

A refresher would certainly help blow away the cobwebs!

All the best
Chris

 

I would be interested in feedback on DCT'd valves

 

I for one would certainly be very interested to hear that

 

I just finished processing some valves today that I believe belong to a member of this forum. He should be getting them back early in the coming week. Perhaps he will give you some feedback.

Greg

 

I am going to have to decline the invitation to expand on the DCT process for a couple of reasons.
Firstly I feel the subject of DCT and hi-fi/audio cable would just reopen wounds between the two camps, which incidentally, has been pointed out by one of ZeroGains members almost caused the demise of this audio forum.
Secondly I am not in favour of using forums as a platform for self-promotion of one’s products or services. I believe Roy Gregory cited this in a recent article (which upset quite a few people) and I am not prepared to lend credence to his views.

Greg

 

Greg
I have some Mullard NOS valves i use in my phono stage, i am loathed to have those DCT'd. If i can find another set at reasonable cost i may try the treatment. I'll give you a PM sometime to discuss.

 

I think Lt Cdr Data hit the nail on the head.

Someone who i have a lot of respect for who works in the DIY field (I'm not mentioning any naimes) said that all cables act as a filter, i believe this to be true, i also think it's quite possible that they can add their own sonic signature.

When the majority of PCb tracks, and to a lesser extent, component legs are made of copper, why add silver?

It may sound better in some systems but i think that's because it's filtering out problems.

That's not to say i'm against silver, "if it sounds better it is better" a quote from another DIY'ER that I have a lot of respect for.

 

Pete,
Some links that may be of interest.

http://www.worldpath.net/~hisaim/
http://lennon.pub.csufresno.edu/~rlk16/cryo.html
http://www.cryogenicsociety.org/csa_bin/back_issues/spring96/spring96_1.html
http://www.thebrassbow.com/brassbw1.htm#Cryogenic

 

wadia-miester, thanks, but the theory behind cryogenic treatment of steel is (reasonably) well understood. It basically revolves around phase transformations exhibited at various temperatures, specifically the austenite / martensite transformation, along with carbon crashing out of the martensite lattice as it cools. Similarly, with some other alloys (eg. brass) analogous phase transformations may occur - these all depend on the interactions between the different atoms present in the solid structure (carbon and iron in the case of steel).

However, to the best of my knowledge (limited in the field of materials!) neither elemental copper nor silver should exhibit any kind of phase transformation until it actually melts, nor (obviously) is an ultra-pure metal likely to precipitate out particles of carbon, and therefore cryogenic treatment should have zero effect on the structure. Clearly if people are reporting changes with cryogenic treatments then my understanding must be erroneous...

 

Whatever happened to the super conductor Carbon 64?
Should be near perfect for hi-fi also.

Russ Andrews must be selling them; looking at his prices

 

Pete,

You will find very little information Net-wise regarding non ferrous material being treated, again its relitively new on the scale of even croygenics under 20 years I think?
I first came across the process during my time with areospace, the company I was working for at the time was trying to improve the life-span/internal shock loading of certain aircraft parts, all forms of material treatments and alloys were tried some leading to improvements in the areas required, yet many had undesirable side effects, that are really idealistic in fly machines!!!
Hence my interest in Crogenics, this was 18 years ago, since then the said company has seen the benefits that this process will bring, now having their own research dept specificaly looking at ways to use/improve this method of material 'internal reformation'.
They now use Cryogenics in many areas including non ferrous, plastics and glass.
All of these things have a wide varitey of applications ranging from Areospace/Military/Electronics/Civil engineering/Food Processing/Mototrsport.
The use of Cryogenics in the electronics industry is growing, more and more companies are getting 'Enthuisatic' about the process, and as you know Electronics companies are tighter than a gnats chuff welded shut !.

 

That's certainly true - as I mentioned somewhere along the line all I could find with a quick keyword search in the scientific literature was a 2001 review on "recent developments of cryoprocessing of materials" which discussed amongst other things steel and copper alloys - nothing at all about elemental metals AFAICT.

 

Pete,

You may also find one of reasons for this, is purely not every one wants to share their information regarding this. R & D time isn't cheap especially in an area thats still in its infantancy. So all new findings I feel are 'hung onto' within the industry, plus its not a 2 month project either, but a sustained and ongoing research that requires proper monetry investment.
What I will say, not all the products we manufacture are Cryo'd, so products do NOT respond well to this process, others DO.
I should have added "Dependent upon application", we construct 4 or 5 samples of new designs one set treated the other set not, (milti-alloys and non ferrous types too), and then assertain the suitability to the purporse its destained for. The results are not always as expected