DBT Report

Originally posted by Lawrie
P.S. Why pay brand new retail prices if you can get components, cables etc for much, much less or even second-hand. Surely, given the first one to two years severe depreciation rates on many hifi components, even you would agree that that's the sensible option to take, no?
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AFAIK most forum members, including Tony, are very much allied to buying used rather than new gear. Personally I think beyond a certain point/budget buying new gear makes no sense at all considering the wide range of well cared for, high-end gear available on the used market, though you dont get the same pampering or immediate choice and it can be tricky to fully audition cadidates for purchase?
 
IMO you have it the wrong way round. If you want a CD player as musical at your analogue front end, you would normally have to double the investment, not halve it.

Still, I know WM's "definitions" are somewhat different to mine and others.
 
Well, the Orbe that belongs to one of my friends sounds fantastic. Careful set-up is almost certainly critical to getting a good sound out of it.

CD can get close, but never quite as good - at any price, IMO.

When I see stuff like the 'Kalista' CD transport (£13,000, transport only!) I just fall about laughing. Money > sense.
 
Originally posted by 7_V
I don't know whether the Orbe grooved less than the modified Wadia at Heathrow. I didn't really detect a difference in this regard, so clearly we all listen to music in different ways.

My own view was that the Wadia did exceptionally well, compared to an excellent turntable system, which included an SME V and a Koetsu Red. However, it still sounded less natural to my ears. When I just wanted to relax and listen to music I found myself choosing the Orbe.
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Steve,

Good post, sir and one which clearly backs-up my comment that "groove" means different things to different people. The key word in your post was "natural" which sums up what I think about TTs as they present the music in a more natural way than many CD players I've heard. Btw, was this a stock Wadia player (important point) or one that has had it's guts and other internals ripped out and replaced with new components? I only ask as the majority of us use stock players available for purchase through the usual sources.

Originally posted by merlin
IMO you have it the wrong way round. If you want a CD player as musical at your analogue front end, you would normally have to double the investment, not halve it.

Still, I know WM's "definitions" are somewhat different to mine and others.
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That's what my experience suggests hence the reason why I was surprised that WM suggested that there were CD players that cost around 50% of the cost of my TT front-end that could do what my TT does for me i.e. natural, fluid and totally involving music. I would have thought that to get close to that level of enjoyment, I would have to invest double or even more than the cost of my analogue rig in a CD player. But still, I am confident that WM will post the names of the CD players that he had in mind.;) It's good to know that we can all get good sound for less money which is what we all want so I anxiously await the good man's CD player recommendations.;)



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.:D
 
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Originally posted by Lawrie
Btw, was this a stock Wadia player (important point) or one that has had it's guts and other internals ripped out and replaced with new components? I only ask as the majority of us use stock players available for purchase through the usual sources.
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:eek: This was absolutely not stock. I understand that this Wadia has been well ripped by the 'Miester' and it is probably as good as any cdp I've heard.
That's what my experience suggests hence the reason why I was surprised that WM suggested that there were CD players that cost around 50% of the cost of my TT front-end that could do what my TT does for me i.e. natural, fluid and totally involving music. I would have thought that to get close to that level of enjoyment, I would have to invest double or even more than the cost of my analogue rig in a CD player.
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At home I use a Rega Planet (cost me £300) and a weird prototype Rocksan DAC (£100 used). The Planet has been re-clocked and I use my doorstop/superball supports under both. It's not at all bad for £500 all in, although again, for naturalness, it's seen off by my home turntable - Michell Mycro, O.L. Silver arm, Ortofon Rohmann and EAR 834P with transformer.

Maybe I'm just an aging hippie. Pass me my pipe and slippers. :MILD:
 
Originally posted by 7_V
:eek: This was absolutely not stock. I understand that this Wadia has been well ripped by the 'Miester' and it is probably as good as any cdp I've heard.
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Ah Steve,

Wadiameister's CDP is "as good as any CDP you've heard". Thanks for that response - just as I thought.;) It is understandable that WM should feel that his CDP kicked the Orbe SE's butt as he has spent, sweat, blood & tears in that modification process. When one has spent time and money on such a project as WM has, subconsciously, he is forced to declare "his baby" the best out there. However, get an independent observer in (as in your good self) and things become different. As far as I am concerned, it does not matter how WM cuts, dices or slices it, the sound from that CD player will never equate the natural sound from a good turntable. Well, he might be able to get close if he dropped a couple of valves into the box but then that's another story. ;) I recently heard a Wadia 861 modified by Great Northern Sounds of the U.S. after I commented that the stock 861 did not connect me to the music as much as I was expecting and this was after two listening sessions. Whilst the modified Wadia was good, it still sounded digital next to the Nottingham Analogue Anna Log turntable which I begged to be played as it was sitting next to the Wadia. Phono stage was by Graaf. Anyway, just to bring this back on topic, I wonder if WM would be up for a blind test with his player against a turntable not of his choice?:D

WM - I don't want to rush you as I know you are putting together a long list of CDPs which will see off my turntable combo. Any chance of getting that list today or should I just declare that to get digital to sound anything as good as analogue, one has to spend at least double the cost of the analogue rig (or even more) on a good CD player and even then, it would still only be close? It was Bubsy who once declared that beyond a certain price, all CDPs start sounding the same. However, given my experiences to date, I will water down that statement by saying that there are more similarities between CD players than differences and that the differences just do not explain the massive price differences between cheaper players and more expensive ones hence the reason I am reluctant to get rid of my digital rig unless I hear one that really blows me away and is affordable. I await that list WM. ;)





Emjoy the music,

Lawrie:D
 
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Lawrie,

Only one CD player I've heard takes on a TT head to head when it comes to naturalness, and it ain't going to cost you less than £4K at retail;)
 
Lawrie - without wanting to drag up the debates about the future of SACD, I wouyld recommend you audition at least one or two decent SACD players. There are a couple that can be imported including taxes for sub 4K (GBP) which I understand to be excellent.

Without wanting to sound repetative, (I always seem to end up mentioning the SCD-1 :)) the Sony SCD-1 or 777ES (there's one for sale on eBay currently no bids opening at 900 GBP) are certainly worth trying from the SACD point of view, are good for mods and unmodded perform pretty well in the CD playback too and can be had for small beer used (between 900 - 1700 GBP).
 
Are You on the Road to... Audio hell?

Originally posted by The Devil
WM had the chance to wipe the floor with my old LP12, but he bottled out. :D
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OK. I can see the way that this thread is going.

Before we descend into another "You're a complete moron because you disagree with me" thread, let me repeat my view (and it's obvious really) that we all listen to different things. We also all have different priorities. For example, many people are so put off by the higher noise levels on vinyl that, to them, any cdp is better than any tt. It's a valid point.

I contend that any piece of equipment that sounds better to any person IS better for that person.

Of course, some people could use a little sonic education. ;)

Have a look at this article by Leonard Norwitz and Peter Qvortrup. I found it amusing (and interesting).
Are You on the Road to... Audio Hell?
 
Originally posted by merlin
Lawrie,

Only one CD player I've heard takes on a TT head to head when it comes to naturalness, and it ain't going to cost you less than £4K at retail;)
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Merlin,

If that CDP is French made, then it is already on my list for the next round of auditions - no fixed dates yet. If it is not French, then do reveal all.;)

Originally posted by greg

Lawrie - without wanting to drag up the debates about the future of SACD, I wouyld recommend you audition at least one or two decent SACD players. There are a couple that can be imported including taxes for sub 4K (GBP) which I understand to be excellent.
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Greg,

The best SACD player I have heard to date (given my limited exposure to such players) is the Krell SACD Standard which also puts up a good performance on Redbook. At the moment, the jury is out on SACD and it's future especially with the limited amount of actual DSD recordings available out there. IMO, actual DSD recordings show the superiority of the format of red-book (feel free to correct me here). However, the Krell would be invited back to Lawrie Mansions for another listen. What other brands were you referring to that can be imported as I have no problems getting audio stuff especially from the U.S. and Europe?

P.S. Either WM has gone AWOL or he was just bluffing about those CDPs that could compete with my turntable. Dear oh dear ........... :rolleyes:




Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.:D
 
I've heard very good things from two sources about the Accuphase DP-85
http://www.accuphase.com/dp-85_e.htm

And I know of a couple of folks who like the MF Tri-Vista.

I'm yet to get my SCD-1 modded but I hope to raise its game considerably on both red-book and sacd. Its a sleeper as far as I'm concerned but horses for courses, etc... (ie. I believe its a potential giant killer but not a cool brand) :)
 
Originally posted by merlin
Lawrie,

Only one CD player I've heard takes on a TT head to head when it comes to naturalness, and it ain't going to cost you less than £4K at retail;)
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Come one Merlin show your hand :)
 
Originally posted by Lawrie
If that CDP is French made, then it is already on my list for the next round of auditions - no fixed dates yet. If it is not French, then do reveal all.;) ....

P.S. Either WM has gone AWOL or he was just bluffing about those CDPs that could compete with my turntable. Dear oh dear ........... :rolleyes:
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Isn't WM out there investigating the potential of French cdps, even as we speak?
 
Originally posted by Lawrie
Merlin,

If that CDP is French made, then it is already on my list for the next round of auditions - no fixed dates yet. If it is not French, then do reveal all.;)

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You are spot on there Lawrie;)

Well worth an audition. If you like it's presentation, there is nothing out there that gets close IMO. BTW Mk2 is vastly superior to my ears.
 
So actually naming it is beyond the scope of reasonable expectation then? Come on school boys spill the secret... :)
 
I'm guessing its the Icos Audio CD PRO?

What is it about French stuff? The Lavardin amps have certainly caught my attention. Just another irritating example of the French whipping the ass of the English. Won't be long before even their comedy will be funnier than the English. Then again no... :D
 
Originally posted by greg
So actually naming it is beyond the scope of reasonable expectation then? Come on school boys spill the secret... :)
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Greg,

I suspect we are referring to the Audio Aero Capitole 2.

The only CD player I have heard that can fool you into thinking you are hearing a good moving coil at times. Whether that's a good or bad thing depends on one's own goals. But the trime I spent with the Capitole was most enjoyable, with an almost SACD like midband. It doesn't "Groove" though;)
 

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