F1: Alonso proud to have beaten Schumacher

"So Alonso overtaking Schumacher like he was in a milk float had nothing to do with power output? I beg to differ, ok I don't have the straight line speeds of both cars cos that's not on the data from the f1 site, (that system is so cool when it works)." LHatkins

So you rip off the comments from ITV about how ALO overtook MSC and then post them on this forum. Did you not understand them when you pasted them in here? There is a very strong hint in there as to what happened and why ALO was able to overtake MSC. And as I said before it has nothing to do with power.

Ian
 
Kimi and Alonso had very good races they both seem fine drivers to me.
Kimi is quick, Alonso is very reasourceful really does remind me of Prost and Senna racing each other in the early days.
Montoya as usual cant keep his car on the track and has no finess whatsoever though can be quick when the mood takes him.
Shewy had very little chance in the bus he was driving and Fizzy should be fired.

Curt
 
Ian Wright said:
"So Alonso overtaking Schumacher like he was in a milk float had nothing to do with power output? I beg to differ, ok I don't have the straight line speeds of both cars cos that's not on the data from the f1 site, (that system is so cool when it works)." LHatkins

So you rip off the comments from ITV about how ALO overtook MSC and then post them on this forum. Did you not understand them when you pasted them in here? There is a very strong hint in there as to what happened and why ALO was able to overtake MSC. And as I said before it has nothing to do with power.

Ian
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Arr, come on Ian, I ripped off 1 comment, the Milk float comment was my own one ! :)
Well the only explanation that I heard for MSC poor performance was that he "may" have had the car setup for wet conditions but I wouldn't have thought a team like that would make such a mistake so I discounted it. But come on he's been off it all season, they just havn't got their act together, which has been a good thing cos we've actually seen some good racing this season.
 
Lee, do you know what Ian does for a living? If you did you'd realise that he knows more than any of us here about F1. There are any number of reasons why ALO was able to overtake MSC, none of which have anything to do with the power of their engines.

Michael.
 
michaelab said:
Lee, do you know what Ian does for a living? If you did you'd realise that he knows more than any of us here about F1. There are any number of reasons why ALO was able to overtake MSC, none of which have anything to do with the power of their engines.

Michael.
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Ya I do, the lucky so and so! :) , so yes he's privy to more information than us mere mortals. The only data I have to go on are websites where I keep hearing that Ferrari are down on power, amugst other problems.
 
FERRARI

Michael Schumacher ââ'¬â€œ Finished 7th/Q.14

"The best thing to come out of today is securing third place in the constructors' championship. Considering the performance of our package this season and the tough time we have had, this is not such a bad result. Especially, when you consider that, in the ten years I have been with Ferrari, this will have been our worst season.

"I was disappointed that I was unable to keep pace with the Renaults. Sure, it is fun to have a good fight on the track, but it would have been better if I had been more competitive. At my second stop, we had to make some adjustments to the car, which cost us time and lost me a place."
Click to expand...
Taken from the ITV F1 website.

Enough said! :)
 
"The only data I have to go on are websites where I keep hearing that Ferrari are down on power, amongst other problems."

If the people writing the text on these websites bothered to look at end of straight speeds then they would see that Ferrari, McLaren and Renault almost always have the highest speeds. At a very simplet level suggesting similar engine power.

Having said that the end of straight speed is determined by:

1. Preceding corner entry, apex and exit speed.
2. Traction out of the corner.
3. Car mass (fuel load affected).
4. Engine power.
5. Aero drag, both Velocity squared and other non -linear effects.
6. Tyre rolling resistance.
7. Mechanical system losses, e.g. transmission etc.
8. Car instability and driver error at any point in the manoeuvre.

I hope that makes it clear that engine power is only one of many things that affect the end of straight speed. In the case in question it was other factors. Not having analysed it in detail I would suggest, 1,2 and 8.

The other overtaking manoeuvre through 130R makes it even clearer when considered with braking into turn 1.

Ian
 
Hi Michael,

"If you did you'd realise that he knows more than any of us here about F1."

Thanks. I should know more about certain technical areas, and car and driver especially performance.

But I am sure that most of you know far more about the gossip, what is happening in general and what you would like to see happening. In these areas your views are far more important than mine.

Ian
 
"Taken from the ITV F1 website.

Enough said!"

What does that say??

He said that he didn't have the car performance. Which is what I said. He didn't have anything to say about engine power!!

Ian
 
Ian Wright said:
"The only data I have to go on are websites where I keep hearing that Ferrari are down on power, amongst other problems."

If the people writing the text on these websites bothered to look at end of straight speeds then they would see that Ferrari, McLaren and Renault almost always have the highest speeds. At a very simplet level suggesting similar engine power.

Having said that the end of straight speed is determined by:

1. Preceding corner entry, apex and exit speed.
2. Traction out of the corner.
3. Car mass (fuel load affected).
4. Engine power.
5. Aero drag, both Velocity squared and other non -linear effects.
6. Tyre rolling resistance.
7. Mechanical system losses, e.g. transmission etc.
8. Car instability and driver error at any point in the manoeuvre.

I hope that makes it clear that engine power is only one of many things that affect the end of straight speed. In the case in question it was other factors. Not having analysed it in detail I would suggest, 1,2 and 8.

The other overtaking manoeuvre through 130R makes it even clearer when considered with braking into turn 1.

Ian
Click to expand...
Very true Ian, wish this info was available to us all, but I guess they will want to keep this kind of data a secret as not to show their competitors where their problems are.

I think my initial comments where taken too literally, they where my own opinions based on the information I heard or could find.

It was a good race and hope we get to see more like that, very enjoyable.
 
Ian Wright said:
"Taken from the ITV F1 website.

Enough said!"

What does that say??

He said that he didn't have the car performance. Which is what I said. He didn't have anything to say about engine power!!

Ian
Click to expand...
No, your right he didn't, but after reading several articles, quotes, reviews all saying similar things, that was the (maybe incorrect?) conclusion I came to. But then non of the teams publish their Dyno results do they ? then we'd know once and for all. :lol:
 
Hi Lee,

"Very true Ian, wish this info was available to us all, but I guess they will want to keep this kind of data a secret as not to show their competitors where their problems are."

This data will remain secret. It is possible to derive some of it but it is hard work and requires a range of techniques to be developed. To get a better understanding of what effect those parameters have you would need a lap simulation.

"I think my initial comments where taken too literally, they where my own opinions based on the information I heard or could find."

I find it difficult to leave statments that are completely wrong when it concerns an area that I have some expertise. In this case there is enough information in the public domain to work out what happened, as Michael has shown.

"It was a good race and hope we get to see more like that, very enjoyable."

It certainly was. Our performance was not good enough but we know what we need to do to resolve that.

Ian
 
Are you allowed to say which team it is you work with then?
I can understand your opinions on my comments, I'm not privy to the same data you are and as such am more of the "armchair" (I hate that term, as I do have "some" mechanical knowledge) viewer, with only access to limited data.
 
It wasn't so long ago that the only full works (making both car and engine) team in F1 was Ferrari. Then came Toyota. Then Renault. Next year there'll be BMW and Honda (x2) making them more than half of the grid. I wonder how long McLaren can hold out not being consumed by Mercedes...

Michael.
 
It interesting the way teams are going, is this down to the cost of F1 that the small teams (ie non works) can't afford to keep going?

Will there be more teams / drivers next year then?

As far as I can make out it'll be

McLarran
Williams
Renault
Ferrari
Honda (formally BAR)
Red Ball (x2 what is the other post Manardi team going to be called?)
BMW (formally Sauber ?)
Toyota
Jorden ?
Midland Racing ?
Rumor of a Honda B team??? (Sato will be have a drive then :) )
No actually I read Sato will be in RBR Rockie team, class.

I got my info from here in case you where wondering.
 
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"Does the theory that Adrian Newey leaving McLaren to work with Red Bull is a step towards Kimi joining Ferrari in 2007 make sense ?
What with Ferrari engines powering Red Bull next year."

Cannot see why you should make that connection!!

The top drivers decide on where they are going to drive mainly based upon the team's competence and the amount of money that they will pay along with seat availabilty. It has nothing to do with someone they like working with who is at a team that uses the same engines as the team that they are going to join!!

"Will Newey be able to jump from Red Bull to Ferrari in 2007 ....or does he fancy the idea of designing Red Bull boats ?"

Adrian was capable of jumping from McLaren to anywhere earlier this week. He chose Red Bull Racing.

RBR are recruiting quite a few top people at the moment. Many of whom do not get their names into the press.

Ian
 

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