Fuel Consumption.

I would take an Audi Quattro S1 over any of the above any day. ridiculous and marvelous and a slice of the better things from the 80's. Cue William Wollard. Music by Propaganda.




In case anyone pipes up referring to the Impreza STi or Mitzy FQ400...
2110 CC Turbo (KKK)
5 Cylinders
6 speed
Power: 500 bhp / 373 KW @ 7500 rpm (the EVO 2 version hit 600+ bhp)
Torque: 449 Nm / 331 ft lbs @ 5500 rpm
237 BHP per litre
420 BHP per tonne
0-60 3.6s

 

naaah,
gollops car's specs:
2.3 liter twin turbo
6 cylinders
racing weight 1100 kilos (with 300 kilos of balast thanks to the rules)
power 650 bhp in race trim - 800 bhp in nutter bastard trim. this was done partly for reliability and partly to provide a flat power curve from 6000 rpm out to 9000!
537 ish bhp per tonne in race trim (904 bhp/ton in ultimate guise) (if my calculations are correct)
282 bhp per liter. (or 374 in ultimate guise)
0-60? a mere 2.5 seconds.
top speed was 120 due to the nature of the circuits and gearing etc.
some movies:

http://www.powerstation.org.uk/resources/6R4_2.mpg - awesome torque steer on a 4x4

http://www.powerstation.org.uk/resources/6R4_4.mpg - if only he could change gear quickly.

sorry the 6r4 takes it for me.
cheers


julian

 

Oh dont get me wrong, my love of the S1 isnt all about performance - as we know the Integrale and then the "highpoint" cars (the 6R4 and Ford RS200) whipped the Audi, but for me its also about the point in time, the aesthetics and the innovation. You have to admit two things:
1. The 6R4 isnt a looker
2. The RS200 kicked its ass on performance (RS200 EVO )

Then it all ended when those crazy Group B cars were banned after deaths, etc. Shame really.

 

the 6r4 has a certain brutal charm and gollops car trounced the rs200's to win the world rallycross championship 2 years on the trot again if memory serves.
still any car that can murder the americans at pikes peak is no bad thing.
if you want a good watch see if you can find 'too fast to race' a tribute to group 'b' in all it's guises (rally and sports car).
cheers

julian

 

You most certainly can, though you'd have to pay something like £20k for a really good re-built and tuned one.
But for that you could have one like a m8 of mine's.. 500hp, suspension that doesn't give no matter how hard you jump on it, and motorcycle beating b-road performance.
Wouldn't want it as a commuter, or distance car though! I'll stick with the 4wd Skoda..

 

how about the integrale rally car that had a supercharger and a turbo, they were quite business like in group b too.

I still like the last of the mk2 rs2000, NA, im hoping to build one for the road eventually, with zetec/duractec power.

Great videos julian, thanks, any more group b type car videos? i sortof collect them. Shame the turbos seem to hush the metro 6r4 bark a little, i think the quattro sounds marvelous in a thrummy kind of way

 

That was the 037 like what Tovyain got killed in a super upto to 4000rpm and the turbo kicks in after

 

20k!!! you can get a 5 yr old ave mile M5 for less...............

 

a very short clip (delta s4) can be found here;

http://www.videoconcept.com/Clips/03_wolsfeld_bruno.mpg

I have one that i cant seem to find of a tuned version at a hillclimb. absolutely amazing roadhandling, and the shreak it makes!

 

Henri Toivonen got killed in a Lancia Delta S4...which did have a super charger for low revs and turbo after that. The S4 was the successor to the 037 which I believe also had the super/turbo arrangement. The 037 was loosely based on the Lancia Beta Montecarlo. The S4 was even more loosely based on the Delta (it was mid-engined!). It was also fugly. Give me an Integrale Evo any day

As a result of that fatal accident Group B rallying was canned - the right decision IMO, they had become way too powerful for that type of racing.

Michael.

 

there was also the utter spectator lunacy prevalent in the mid 80's where you'd have people playing matador with the cars.
still the group b cars found a home in rallycross which imho was by far the best racing series ever, well before they all turned to ex wrc cars with half the bhp.
cheers

julian.

 

The outrageousness of the Group B class was not a problem for any other reason that the stupidity of certain spectators. As it was probably impossible to control them properly yes it should have been banned, but for me it was the high point in motor sport. F1 is very dull by comparison IMO.

 

Toivonen's fatal crash had nothing to do with spectators. No one really knows what happened but the car left the road, plunged into a ravine and then exploded in a ball of flames. Possibly could happen with todays WRC cars but much less likely. Piloting barely controllable (power was basically "on" or "off" with nothing in between) 600hp+ rockets through highly treacherous roads is just asking for a fatal accident, crazy spectators or not.

I personally prefer WRC cars. I've always liked the idea of rally cars being recognizable derivations of "normal" road cars. IMO Group B cars were way too outrageous and specialised.

Julian, I'm sorry, but no matter what you do to it the 6R4 is and always will be a Mini Metro :chunder: . It's the ultimate chav-mobile.

...and if you want serious "rally" style cars then forget your namby pamby rallycross stuff. You need a Pikes Peak hillclimb special :

http://www.mach2racing.com/the_rs200e.htm

Michael.

 

Come on Michael, F1 is far more lethal and a ban has never been a serious option. The ban was due to the danger to the spectators.

 

And we all know where the engine from the 6R4 ended up...

 

michael,
taste is a purely personal thing so if you don;t like it fair enough. my very first car was an mg metro so there is a certain nostalgia there for me hence my preference of it over the rs200, although the lancia s4 gets bonus points for a completely hatstand engine.
isaac,
iirc the 6r4's engine was also used in the jag 220 (which i also like, a lot) or were you referring to something else?
cheers


julian.

 

Nope, that was the one.

 

F1 these days is one of the safest forms of motorsport IMO. IMO even the current WRC is far more dangerous.

F1 was lethal from the 50s through to the 70s and then rapidly improved after that. The changes post Imola '94 (Senna's death) have made it as safe as any form of motorsport can reasonably be. Even Senna's death was due to a completely freak occurance (bit of suspension from front wheel piercing his helmet) - if it hadn't been for that he would have survived.

The Group B ban was in part due to the spectators but also because of the extreme power and relative uncontrollability of the cars running on roads where a single mistake can send you flying into ravines, with no marshalls or anyone else nearby to even notice (it was ages before anyone even realised that Toivonen had crashed, let alone before anyone tried to help them).

Julian: <cough> silk purse <cough> pig's ear <cough> <cough>

Michael.

 

michael,
with modern systems i.e. gps, airbag sensors and a mobile phone link it would be possible to have a system which informed officials that a car had crashed, where and even how severe the crash was - in fact i wouldn;t be surprised if the teams today didn;t know exactly when a crash happens thanks to the existing telemetry.


The end of Group B

The pace of technology in Group B was astounding, but FISA was planning Group S. Group S was to be a class which would allow manufacturers to produce highly futuristic cars, and only ten copies would be required for homologation. However, the inevitable finally happened: during the 1986 Port Wine rally in Portugal, a Ford RS200 left the road on a spectator stage, killing three and injuring dozens; after the crash, all the works teams withdrew from the rally. But the final blow for Group B came on May 4, 1986.

Lancia's lead driver, Henri Toivonen, was dominating the 1986 championship and the Tour de Corse rally when his S4 left the road during a twisty tarmac stage. The car went off the edge of the road, hitting trees and rocks while sliding down a hillside. Toivonen and his navigator, Sergio Cresto, were killed. There were no witnesses to the crash, and the subsequent fire completely destroyed the car, leaving the remains unrecognizable as a vehicle. The heat from the fire was so intense that all that remained of the car was a blackened space frame. Group B and Group S were instantly cancelled for the 1987 season; Ford and Audi withdrew from Group B immediately. The other works teams decided to see the season out.

cheers


julian

 

As i understand it most teams had a team helicopter following the cars back then as peugeot did when Ari vatenan was hospitalised when he crashed his 205.

I think crowd control was the main issue, mind you the whole appeal of group b was surely that there were that bit too powerfull, perhaps they could have imposed some restrictions, but not ban it if spectator control had been better.

i would agree that f1 now is safer though.