Fuel Consumption.

[Saab]

to be fair,Aurocar test in any weather and their figs have always been suspect.they got the Skoda vRS to 6.8 secs to 60 at one point (although that is actually believable)

I was also sceptical of oil burners until I had to take one as a company car.The 530 and 330 and superb cars,but the best of the bunch is the 320 imo.have that car chipped and you have a cheap company car rocket on your hands.A fabulous car!

 

[leonard smalls]

to be fair,Aurocar test in any weather and their figs have always been suspect.they got the Skoda vRS to 6.8 secs to 60 at one point (although that is actually believable)

Definitely believable - look at www.briskoda.co.uk.. Some of those guys are getting 300+bhp from the 1.8T engine, there's even a thread about which spoiler is best to stop lift at over 180mph!
My 4wd Skoda, btw only manages about 31mpg on average though it's good in the snow!

 

[Saab]

i know,i had one 6 months ago

tbh,some of claims are a bit wild,the turbo manufacturer of the K06 has gone on record saying that 215 bhp is the limit,although everyone thats claimed higher figs now reckons they meant safe limit...........................i just think the tuning industry is mostly exaggeration anyway

 

[Matt F]

So is the 330i 5.9 or 6.7? Autocar timed the Clio 182 at 6.3 0-60, no wonder!

EVO timed the 330 Sport at 5.9, Autocar the 330SE at 6.7 – bigger tyres of the Sport may have helped but Autocar may well have had a wet track. If it was wet then this would have little impact on the 30-70 time which is very impressive at only 0.3 secs behind the S4 Avant.

Hey – another thought – perhaps the 330SE was an auto? That might explain the 0-60 and 30-70 times even more.

Not sure its fair to compare to the estate version. So what are the stats for the RS4 - the real deal and M3 muncher?

It wasn't by design – Autocar only had figures for the S4 Avant not the saloon – anyway, the Avant is perhaps nearer in weight to the cabrio (the car that started the debate)

Should we consider the S4 as a quicker equivalent 330i and the RS4 as a quicker equivalent M3?

I'm sure BMW (and 330i drivers everywhere) would be delighted that you have to spend an extra £10K or so to get an Audi that's a bit faster.

As for the RS4, how much? £55K? That buys you a new shape M5! Besides which, I haven't seen anything to prove the RS4 is actually faster than the M3 (11.5-100) – figures are thin on the ground though.

Don't get me wrong, I've great deal of respect for the Audi S and RS models but they certainly don't seem price competitive and I think most would consider the M3 and M5 to be better drivers cars that the S4 and RS4.

The stats that caught my attention were those of the 530D compared to the 530i. The diesel 5 seemed more of a no brainer than the diesel 3.

I'm still sceptical about oil burners though

The 530i has now been uprated to 256bhp which will redress the balance a little but I'd still take the diesel, especially with fuel at the £4 per gallon mark. As far as the 525i goes, again I can't imagine why anyone would pick this over the excellent 525D – having said that, the 525i is cheaper.

Don't be sceptical – take one out. Maybe try that new Merc C320CDI – 6.9 to 60 with an auto box! I'd definitely say try out a 6 cylinder diesel – they actually have a bit of character whereas the four pots still sound like they should really be sitting in the engine bay of a white vehicle with no rear windows.

The 530 and 330 and superb cars, but the best of the bunch is the 320 imo.

I do like the 320D having driven one for the last three years and, as you say, they make a wise company car choice. However, the 330D is in a different league, not just the speed but the sound of the engine and the power delivery (much bigger power bands). The 320D always seemed like decent car with a good turn of speed, the 330D feels and sounds a bit special – that's the key difference IMO.

Finally, as far as the RS Skoda goes, there were rumours that the car suplied to the press for testing was, shall we say, a touch hotter than the one the man in the street would be supplied with.

Matt.

 

[greg]

I'm sure BMW (and 330i drivers everywhere) would be delighted that you have to spend an extra £10K or so to get an Audi that's a bit faster....

...As for the RS4, how much? £55K? That buys you a new shape M5!

Good point.

Don't get me wrong, I've great deal of respect for the Audi S and RS models but they certainly don't seem price competitive and I think most would consider the M3 and M5 to be better drivers cars that the S4 and RS4.

I think judgement would need to be based on the latest VAG A4 platform as I believe they have silenced some of their critics regards the poor drivers experience of past iterations. Afterall they bloody should have sorted it considering how many other VAG models (Skoda Octavia, Seat Leon, VW Golf) are based on it.

Don't be sceptical ââ'¬â€œ take one out. Maybe try that new Merc C320CDI ââ'¬â€œ 6.9 to 60 with an auto box! I'd definitely say try out a 6 cylinder diesel ââ'¬â€œ they actually have a bit of character whereas the four pots still sound like they should really be sitting in the engine bay of a white vehicle with no rear windows.

Trouble is I've had a pretty poor experience moving from a petrol Grand Espace (2.0 Turbo) to the 2.2 dCi. Where I was driving a pretty nimble car-like 7 seater petrol with good acceleration and an average 24 mpg, I'm now driving a heavy front-ended bus with poorer acceleration, handling and noise levels and averaging 27 mpg! So where diesel fuel is more expensive per litre and the Grand Espace diesel option is £1500 more than the petrol in the first place - unless I'm doing lots of miles annually - I'm seeing a loss financially. Just hasnt made sense for me.

A few friends who are high milers and were long term diesel lovers have recently switched back to petrol - one example the Vectra 2.2 Direct (not my choice) seems to be capable of virtually diesel-like mpg. At the same time greater performance in diesels seems to result in unexpectedly poorer fuel economy.

My experience in the diesel Grand Espace supports this view and leads me to think the UK populus are being brain washed into believing diesels are a totally logical choice.

The MPG figures generally quoted in this thread suggest there is still considerable MPG gains though if accurate.

 

[Saab]

Matt

those rumours re the Skoda were pout out because everyone that owned an Audi a3 or Golf refused to believe it.A bloke in Briskoda bought the car off Skoda Uk after the test and they said it was all bollox,the car was standard.This is supported by many owners reporting 195 on the rollers as standard when they went in for remaps,and again another rumour was started that Skoda wanted to twat the Golf Mk 4 Anniversary so they upped the boost......................who knows

 

[analoguekid]

I think judgement would need to be based on the latest VAG A4 platform as I believe they have silenced some of their critics regards the poor drivers experience of past iterations. Afterall they bloody should have sorted it considering how many other VAG models (Skoda Octavia, Seat Leon, VW Golf) are based on it.

A4 doesn't share it's platform with any other models. A8 and A2 are unique too (although I believ phaeton is similar to A8 but in steel) A3 and TT shared the same platforms as the cars you mention, old A6 and passat were same, new A6 unique and passat now on stretched mark5 golf platform.

All this talk of poor dynamics, yes last model A4 (the first one) didn't have a terribly good chassis, new one before facelift is excellent, maybe not last word in finesse like 3 series, but not much worse, and considering that the majority of drivers never get their cars beyond about 6/10ths on the public road, then most wouldn't be able to tell difference.

 

[greg]

A4 doesn't share it's platform with any other models.

Are you sure?

AFAIK the A4 platform is shared across all VAG brands in one form or another, modified in a number of variants to support: Audi A4, Golf, Audi A3, Seat Leon, Skoda Octavia. I'm not saying the chassis and specs are all the same, just the platform design. In the same way the 1.8T engine was used in everything from VW Sharan's, to Golf's to Leon 20VT and CupraR, Audi TT (both 180 BHP and 225 BHP), the Audi S3, the VW Passat 1.8 20V.
Thats the VAG way is it not - one principal design with many variations?
If not tell me more.

 

[analoguekid]

yes I'm sure, A4 is seperate platform, of course their may be similar design element, like BMW with their Z axle. The others you mention do share a platform, albeit with different hardpoints etc, next A4 may use the same platform as new passat, which is as you suggest, basically a stretched version of the current Golf platform.

 

[rsand]

As to why would anyone choose an M3 over a 330i, I think the above figures tell there own tale.

Drive them and say that, they are not the same car. I often get a 330i as a courtesy car and hate it but was very tempted with the m3

 

[greg]

Drive them and say that, they are not the same car. I often get a 330i as a courtesy car and hate it but was very tempted with the m3

The M3 is indeed a different animal altogether, but for many people a 330i would suffice regards power and performance.

 

[Matt F]

As to why would anyone choose an M3 over a 330i, I think the above figures tell their own tale.

Drive them and say that, they are not the same car. I often get a 330i as a courtesy car and hate it but was very tempted with the m3

I was suggesting the figures show EXACTLY why someone would choose the M3 over the 330i.

You seem to be agreeing with me and yet not agreeing with me

Matt.

 

[rsand]

You seem to be agreeing with me and yet not agreeing with me Matt.

Agreed! missunderstood what you were saying there.

There is a big ££ difference between the 2 though which would be the main reason for buying a 330 over an m3, although if I only had 330 money I would be looking elsewhere, my old TT was far superior to the 330.

 

[Saab]

The M3 is indeed a different animal altogether, but for many people a 330i would suffice regards power and performance.

can't argue with that,but then agin,you can never have too much power

 

[PBirkett]

those rumours re the Skoda were pout out because everyone that owned an Audi a3 or Golf refused to believe it.A bloke in Briskoda bought the car off Skoda Uk after the test and they said it was all bollox,the car was standard.This is supported by many owners reporting 195 on the rollers as standard when they went in for remaps,and again another rumour was started that Skoda wanted to twat the Golf Mk 4 Anniversary so they upped the boost......................who knows

It would appear you are correct, its Freakcrab on briskoda who owns that car and he says it was putting out 197 bhp, which is slightly up on standard, but also, slightly below what you'd expect from a remapped one.

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/showthread.php?p=182255#post182255

My mates 1.8T Ibiza as standard had a claimed 0-60 of 8.4 seconds, but it was easily much faster than that... i reckon low sevens, so its easily possible the Octy could do sub 7... the 1.8T is a potent engine. He has it chipped now to 215 bhp, and its very quick... just over 6 seconds to 60 now.

 

[greg]

can't argue with that,but then agin,you can never have too much power

I guess to put my comment in context, personally I see around and have talked to lots of people who either own an M3 or are planning to buy one...
When I first saw an M3 E30 I fell in love with it and desperately wanted one (I was 16 at the time). I absolutely loved the whole "Motorsport" division concept, the serious tweaks, the fact the roof was the only panel it shared with the regular E30 323i, the fact they tweaked the 2.3litre 4 pot rather than the 2.5 6 pot. It just spoke to me.

Then the E36 version came along. A friend of mine who had some success as a music producer (got to a UK #1) bought a convertible one - I was jealous. The detail, the shape, the wheels, the 321 BHP! Again spoke to me.

Then the E46 version arrived - it chimed even more - except one terrible thing had occurred in the previous 15 years... With the E30, M3's were a rare beast in the UK. With the E36 they became a regular sight. but the E46 is now just common place and with it the appeal for me has evaporated.

So my bug bear is that lots of people own an M3 E46 and of them many dont need it or really appreciate it. Put them in an M3 and they a) cant handle it and b) dont know what to do with it.

IMO most of them shouldnt be in anything more powerful than a 2 litre Golf. So my point is, the current 330i is good enough for most people. I sound like a horsepower Nazi.

 

[Saab]

I guess to put my comment in context, personally I see around and have talked to lots of people who either own an M3 or are planning to buy one...
When I first saw an M3 E30 I fell in love with it and desperately wanted one (I was 16 at the time). I absolutely loved the whole "Motorsport" division concept, the serious tweaks, the fact the roof was the only panel it shared with the regular E30 323i, the fact they tweaked the 2.3litre 4 pot rather than the 2.5 6 pot. It just spoke to me.

Then the E36 version came along. A friend of mine who had some success as a music producer (got to a UK #1) bought a convertible one - I was jealous. The detail, the shape, the wheels, the 321 BHP! Again spoke to me.

Then the E46 version arrived - it chimed even more - except one terrible thing had occurred in the previous 15 years... With the E30, M3's were a rare beast in the UK. With the E36 they became a regular sight. but the E46 is now just common place and with it the appeal for me has evaporated.

So my bug bear is that lots of people own an M3 E46 and of them many dont need it or really appreciate it. Put them in an M3 and they a) cant handle it and b) dont know what to do with it.

IMO most of them shouldnt be in anything more powerful than a 2 litre Golf. So my point is, the current 330i is good enough for most people. I sound like a horsepower Nazi.

lol at horsepower Nazi

The E30 M3 was and is a brilliant car,if you can still find an umloested one at less than the silly prices Munich Legends still charge,but its not that powerful by todays standards,a stock UK Scoob could muller it for example.But its the handling that is sublime.I have a mate who still has a rare UK r/h drive,and its totally minted,a lovely,lovely car.

but then again the E30 325 Sport is a good car,I think it has a lsd,but i might be wrong

you are right about most people needing far less power than they have.But not if you do track days.I'm off to the Nurburgring in October with a mate who has just bought an E46 CSL.....................I can't wait

 

[leonard smalls]

You boys!
Instead of all that BMW nonsense y'all should buy a properly powerful well-handling car, with the added injection of cool - and none of that feeling of every other motorist hating you...
Like this:

 

[Saab]

oh yes,if you can find one that is will drive 100 yrds without falling apart

 

[julian2002]

leonard,
i'd prefer one of these

preferrably an ex will gollop rallycross 'tweaked' version with the twin turbos and 700+ bhp.
that said i wouldn't say no to a growler though.
cheers


julian