Rewster,
How can the crystalline grain structure of the copper change once the copper has solidified? I dont understand
Robbo
Hacking up Isolda
- Thread starter Alex S
- Start date
Rewster,
How can the crystalline grain structure of the copper change once the copper has solidified? I dont understand
Robbo
Robbo,I take your point that a solid seems pretty much unshakeable once formed, but look at it from the point of how much energy (heat) exists in the material to seperate the bonds at the molecular level. 'Too much' energy and the bonds break down and the copper becomes liquid, 'just right' and the bond holds solid is as we generally concieve it, 'too little' and the molecules are drawn together further still.
Three cryobears anyone?!
At this point I'm conscious of having had my say, and will sign off before I antagonise those good forum members who are here asking all the questions we all needed answers to at one point or another. I don't want self propelled freebie advertising to stop me enjoying the hobby side of hifi and the people that share it here and elsewhere.
PeteH
Natural Blue
rewster said:
That's the part I don't buy.
Honestly, I'm not trying to get at you, it's probably just something I don't understand.As you're aware, in the case of steel there's a complex set of phase transformations which are undergone at various temperatures - exactly what happens also depends on what kind of steel you've got, ie. basically the carbon content. During treatment, steel is typcially raised to a temperature where austenite is the stable phase, then quenched to effect a transformation to martensite - lowering to cryogenic temperatures is required to ensure no austenite is retained. Lowering to liquid nitrogen temperatures also results in some carbon crashing out of the martensite - small grains of which are thought to contribute to the improved physical properties of DCT steel in terms of halting the motion of dislocations during elastic deformation.
Similar effects can be achieved using different kinds of alloys - similar phase transformations can occur with some copper alloys AFAIK and so DCT might reasonably be expected to yield similar results.
However, with audio interconnects manufacturers are always at pains to talk about how pure their materials are, and neither elemental copper nor silver exhibits phase transformations of this kind as far as I'm aware - and clearly, neither precipitates carbon at low temperatures. A 20-second literature search showed a recent-ish review (Reitz W, Pendray J, Materials and Manufacturing Processes 16 (6): 829-840, 2001 "Cryoprocessing of materials: A review of current status") discussing, amongst other things, copper and iron alloy DCT, but doesn't say anything about pure copper.
Solid lattices are, generally speaking, fixed in place unless thermal or mechanical energy causes them to move, or there's a phase change of some kind. Gradual cooling across a phase change (as opposed to quenching) can of course give a larger grain structure through controlled nucleation, but AFAIK there's no phase change along these lines for elemental copper below ambient temperatures.
As I said though I'm not a materials expert so I might be totally misinformed
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wadia-miester said:
Tony, the core conductor used throughout the range is cryogenically treated CDA101 copper. The only differences I am aware of are the guages used.
The only cables that exhibit the incredible transparency and low noise floor that you mistake for "lacking thwack" are the Fesi equipped models, and this quality increases with the amount of Fesi1000 applied. So it would be fair to assume that the Fesi is responsible for making these cables unique in their capabilities and it would explain why after enormous research, you have been unable to produce a cable that matches it's qualities.
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
merlin said:
Humm, I'm not going to get into a debate over this, however if you wish to see which cable has a lower noise floor, this can easily be arranged
As for not being able to 'match' that style particular sound, why would we match it?, got to set your goals a little higher I feel Mike
Tony.
I really look forward to trialling a mains cable from Omiga that can hold a candle to the Shunyata offerings.
Until that time, I will remain tconvinced that the voicings of your cables are tailored for your personal preferences, and that they shift the balance rather than improving any particular system related issue.
Your mains cables do sound clean and punchy with "oodles of thwack"
But as the review suggested, is it portraying the truth or simply manipulating the audible spectrum in such a way as to produce a new effect?
Take the Liberator. Improvements in soundstage depth and solidity at the expense of width. Well this really does not represent an improvement IMO. robbing Peter to pay Paul! All smoke and mirrors mate
I really look forward to trialling a mains cable from Omiga that can hold a candle to the Shunyata offerings.
Until that time, I will remain tconvinced that the voicings of your cables are tailored for your personal preferences, and that they shift the balance rather than improving any particular system related issue.
Your mains cables do sound clean and punchy with "oodles of thwack"
But as the review suggested, is it portraying the truth or simply manipulating the audible spectrum in such a way as to produce a new effect?
Take the Liberator. Improvements in soundstage depth and solidity at the expense of width. Well this really does not represent an improvement IMO. robbing Peter to pay Paul! All smoke and mirrors mate
bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
merlin said:Tony.
I really look forward to trialling a mains cable from Omiga that can hold a candle to the Shunyata offerings.
Until that time, I will remain tconvinced that the voicings of your cables are tailored for your personal preferences, and that they shift the balance rather than improving any particular system related issue.
Your mains cables do sound clean and punchy with "oodles of thwack"
But as the review suggested, is it portraying the truth or simply manipulating the audible spectrum in such a way as to produce a new effect?
Take the Liberator. Improvements in soundstage depth and solidity at the expense of width. Well this really does not represent an improvement IMO. robbing Peter to pay Paul! All smoke and mirrors mate
Hi Merlin
Interesting points you raised, and I admit having similar questions in my own mind regarding all cables and interconnects.
I dont think its fair to say that Omega cables are the only cables that alter the sound .. why should Omega cables be singles out as altering rather than being ''more truthfull'' .. and that other cables (e.g. Shunyata) DONT alter! -
I believe that the moment we admit that cables sound different to each other, then we are saying that they are altering the sound. This surely applies regardless of manufacturer.
All that remains is to what effect the sound is changed by the cable, and whether we like it or not.
Whether we want a cable to change the sound or just be honest open and frank will probably determine our mindset regarding cables in the first place.
I believe that the belief behind most cable sceptics is not that cables CANNOT make a difference, but that they don WANT cables to make a difference!
Surely if a Shunyata cable sounds different to another Shunyata cable - then the conclusion must be drawn that just as Omega cables sound 'different' to each other or 'altered' - just semantics really - then they 'alter' or 'make the sound different' in just the same way as Omega cables.
My own purchasing decisions go along this line:
1) Can I hear a difference with the new item?
2) Is it a difference I like?
3) Is the difference the best use of cash? - i.e. can I get a better result from spending the money somewhere else in my system?
I believe fundementally people decide one of the following:
a) I want to use cables to give me the sound that I want - I dont care how they do it I only care what it sounds like
b) I want a cable to just pass signal. I dont want to alter subtract or change, something reasonably basic will do the trick.
That one manufacturer - for example Shunyata - might make cables that become increasingly more truthful..with higher and higher price tags..!! sounds like marketing spin of the highest order... perhaps just a way to tap into the mind of the sceptic!
my tuppence worth
Chris,
I would only point to Shunyata Fesi equipped mains cables, not the rest of their range.
What these acheive to these ears is a subtle at times, improvement in all areas, without any penalty, allowing the whole of the music the chance to blossom. This I find to be rare with cables, most as you say simply act as tone filters of some kind.
Now WM always harks on about Omiga offering transparency, detail, and many other things. Whenever I have listened to OA cables, they have exhibited gains in some areas at the expense of others, which suggests as reviews have intemiated that they are not really achieving what the manufacturer claims they are.
So no issue here, and if you like that right up in yer face type "impressive" thwack oodle, then the OA seem to be a very good choice. But it makes little sense for WM to enter a debate and claim to be an alchemist rather than a conjurer
I would only point to Shunyata Fesi equipped mains cables, not the rest of their range.
What these acheive to these ears is a subtle at times, improvement in all areas, without any penalty, allowing the whole of the music the chance to blossom. This I find to be rare with cables, most as you say simply act as tone filters of some kind.
Now WM always harks on about Omiga offering transparency, detail, and many other things. Whenever I have listened to OA cables, they have exhibited gains in some areas at the expense of others, which suggests as reviews have intemiated that they are not really achieving what the manufacturer claims they are.
So no issue here, and if you like that right up in yer face type "impressive" thwack oodle, then the OA seem to be a very good choice. But it makes little sense for WM to enter a debate and claim to be an alchemist rather than a conjurer
penance
Arrogant Cock
Alex
when i was looking to get goertz or isolda, one thing i did was to contact goertz (alphacore). They have lists of amps that have issues or not with running their cable. I got a very prompt reply.
So why no mail them on the premise that you want to purchase and ask if your amp is known to be stable with goertz. As it is essentialy the same as isolda it should answer your question. If they say there is no issue, get yer solderin iron out laddy
when i was looking to get goertz or isolda, one thing i did was to contact goertz (alphacore). They have lists of amps that have issues or not with running their cable. I got a very prompt reply.
So why no mail them on the premise that you want to purchase and ask if your amp is known to be stable with goertz. As it is essentialy the same as isolda it should answer your question. If they say there is no issue, get yer solderin iron out laddy
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
Mike
Your new digital toy must be days away, still going for the Harmonix offering?, as your itching as your back into merlin mode
You forgot add in your honest opinion sir
Manipulating?, I thought that was your area sir, you are after all a master of the ART.
I look forward to actually keep a piece of kit long enough to estabish weather or not you like it for its sounds or the T3 factor? or the greatest deal of the week?
Now, have you heard all our cables?, I don't think so, until you have your judgment is incomplete, as is mine with all the other unheard cables, now if you want out shunyata shunyata, may I suggest Kabola, better value too.
Now there is no right or wrong, just personal preference, also how the cables sit within each indivdual system.
Let me know when you get new toy, and as you asked nicely for a demo a few weeks back, I'll bring up some of the new range of rich & quickish stuff with nautral flow along as well, see if you think the hold a candle to anaconda Alpha (I'll bring this one along) and your KC v2, it may yet cause you to smile, then you may hate it
Alex,
What does Jason or Andy W say?, me I'd bin the zobels, I'm pretty sure the last HX1.2 I had the top/back off had those cute little wound inductors on the output stages
Your new digital toy must be days away, still going for the Harmonix offering?, as your itching as your back into merlin mode
You forgot add in your honest opinion sir
Manipulating?, I thought that was your area sir, you are after all a master of the ART.
I look forward to actually keep a piece of kit long enough to estabish weather or not you like it for its sounds or the T3 factor? or the greatest deal of the week?
Now, have you heard all our cables?, I don't think so, until you have your judgment is incomplete, as is mine with all the other unheard cables, now if you want out shunyata shunyata, may I suggest Kabola, better value too.
Now there is no right or wrong, just personal preference, also how the cables sit within each indivdual system.
Let me know when you get new toy, and as you asked nicely for a demo a few weeks back, I'll bring up some of the new range of rich & quickish stuff with nautral flow along as well, see if you think the hold a candle to anaconda Alpha (I'll bring this one along) and your KC v2, it may yet cause you to smile, then you may hate it
Alex,
What does Jason or Andy W say?, me I'd bin the zobels, I'm pretty sure the last HX1.2 I had the top/back off had those cute little wound inductors on the output stages
Tony,
that comes across as somewhat offensive I must say
I did not say your cables all sound the same, just that they all probably add something rather than remove it. So no need for a knicker twisting sess please!
For a proper comparison of cables, one really needs to live with them in a reference system for a good period of time - your "demos" really don't help when it comes to deciding whether the products stack up musically IMO.
I'm happy with what I've got cable wise WM, so thanks for the generous offer but it's conditioners I will be looking at next, not cables.
Years ago I compared the Tact experience to cable swapping. You can tweak variuos parts of the spectrum to create differing effects and alter the perception of depth, speed, clarity and other listening tools.
The difference with the Tact was of course, it was like having access to a laboratory for of cables, without paying for them!
My contention is that OA cables act as tone controls. I'd be delighted if you could prove otherwise. Meanwhile, upon long term music listening, rather than the "change a cable every 30 seconds and only use the one track" type of demonstration often offered by cable salesmen, Shunyata mains cables do appear to offer gains in all departments, thereby suggesting that they are actually cleaning something rather than varnishing it
__________________
" The only source of knowledge is experience"
that comes across as somewhat offensive I must say
I did not say your cables all sound the same, just that they all probably add something rather than remove it. So no need for a knicker twisting sess please!
For a proper comparison of cables, one really needs to live with them in a reference system for a good period of time - your "demos" really don't help when it comes to deciding whether the products stack up musically IMO.
I'm happy with what I've got cable wise WM, so thanks for the generous offer but it's conditioners I will be looking at next, not cables.
Years ago I compared the Tact experience to cable swapping. You can tweak variuos parts of the spectrum to create differing effects and alter the perception of depth, speed, clarity and other listening tools.
The difference with the Tact was of course, it was like having access to a laboratory for of cables, without paying for them!
My contention is that OA cables act as tone controls. I'd be delighted if you could prove otherwise. Meanwhile, upon long term music listening, rather than the "change a cable every 30 seconds and only use the one track" type of demonstration often offered by cable salesmen, Shunyata mains cables do appear to offer gains in all departments, thereby suggesting that they are actually cleaning something rather than varnishing it
__________________
" The only source of knowledge is experience"
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
I could never be offensive if I tried , but I'm sure you charge a fair rate for the master class you hold every second week, Can you sign me up?. I obviously need to brush up my 'customer inter relational skills', and as your the man, I'll book a 12 week session please, no basic course either I want the full on 'Merlin' with bells + whistles I want the Max Merlin yours in anticipation, the humble learner
, but I'm sure you charge a fair rate for the master class you hold every second week, Can you sign me up?. I obviously need to brush up my 'customer inter relational skills', and as your the man, I'll book a 12 week session please, no basic course either I want the full on 'Merlin' with bells + whistles I want the Max Merlin yours in anticipation, the humble learner
I-S
Good Evening.... Infidel
I thought the network on Isolda was impedance-matching, rather than a zoebel network?
Tony,
I don't seek to offend, merely correct
I enjoy the opportunity to reign in your enthusiastic excess occasionally. Thank you for providing me with that Tone
BTW, Any chance of listening to the 270/27 Spectral setup in the near future - now that is something I WOULD travel for
I don't seek to offend, merely correct
I enjoy the opportunity to reign in your enthusiastic excess occasionally. Thank you for providing me with that Tone
BTW, Any chance of listening to the 270/27 Spectral setup in the near future - now that is something I WOULD travel for
bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
Alex S said:
You could always put it on the sunbed for a couple of hours!!
