Yep, thats the ultimate one, but you need a BIG amp for those to shine. Mind you, if you can afford £2k for a set of headphones, then you can afford a big amp for them as well. BTW, did you know the R10's are now discontinued in favour of the new Qualia (sp?) headphones.
Headphones - Electrostatic vs Dynamic
- Thread starter Mr_Sukebe
- Start date
Well, I answered my own question this afternoon with a visit to the Cornflake Shop.
From here and the "headfi" forum, I've been given a very polarised opinion of people either loving or hating them.
This afternoon consisted of a £600 pair of Stax 3030 (inc energiser) vs my old Senn HD540refs (nearly as good as my brothers HD600s) powered by a Creek Headphone amp.
Frankly the two sounded very similar to their speaker bretheren. The Senns sounded like a pair of speakers, and the Stax had better mid range and top, but worse bass (all IMO).
So overall, I'd actually say that each was as good as each other, just different.
Personally I'm home dem'ing the Creek with my Senns for a week. If I get on with it, I'll be ordering a pair of HD650s to go with it, and probably ditch all of my stereo but my CD player.
From here and the "headfi" forum, I've been given a very polarised opinion of people either loving or hating them.
This afternoon consisted of a £600 pair of Stax 3030 (inc energiser) vs my old Senn HD540refs (nearly as good as my brothers HD600s) powered by a Creek Headphone amp.
Frankly the two sounded very similar to their speaker bretheren. The Senns sounded like a pair of speakers, and the Stax had better mid range and top, but worse bass (all IMO).
So overall, I'd actually say that each was as good as each other, just different.
Personally I'm home dem'ing the Creek with my Senns for a week. If I get on with it, I'll be ordering a pair of HD650s to go with it, and probably ditch all of my stereo but my CD player.
Looks like I don't need a weeks worth of home dem.
I spent time yesterday and today comparing the experience of my headphones against my amp/speaker combination.
Frankly the headphones weren't even close.
Clearly headphones don't have the advantage of genuinely projecting the sound from infront of a person. What I'd not counted on was just how wooly, leaden, congested and generally gutless they would sound in comparison.
I can only assume that my stereo really has got somewhat better in the last few years, as the above was not something I expected after previous tests when I was a good deal younger.
I spent time yesterday and today comparing the experience of my headphones against my amp/speaker combination.
Frankly the headphones weren't even close.
Clearly headphones don't have the advantage of genuinely projecting the sound from infront of a person. What I'd not counted on was just how wooly, leaden, congested and generally gutless they would sound in comparison.
I can only assume that my stereo really has got somewhat better in the last few years, as the above was not something I expected after previous tests when I was a good deal younger.
Rory said:
Although i have absolutely no background in recording studio's, on the many occasions that i've seen piccy's or video's, etc of muso's in recording studio's , more often than not they are sporting Beyer Dynamic DT100's on their bonces. I tried them out and quite liked the sound in my local pro-audio shop a few months ago. I eneded up going for a DT100 derivative in the shape of DT150's as i preffered the Bass response of the later. They are supremely ugly looking cans though, function over form me thinks
. Another beauty of these cans is that they shut out the outside world and contain thir sound very well, i can close my eyes and listen to my vibes whilst the family is watching sh!te on the box.
Although i have absolutely no background in recording studio's, on the many occasions that i've seen piccy's or video's, etc of muso's in recording studio's , more often than not they are sporting Beyer Dynamic DT100's on their bonces. I tried them out and quite liked the sound in my local pro-audio shop a few months ago. I eneded up going for a DT100 derivative in the shape of DT150's as i preffered the Bass response of the later. They are supremely ugly looking cans though, function over form me thinks
. Another beauty of these cans is that they shut out the outside world and contain thir sound very well, i can close my eyes and listen to my vibes whilst the family is watching sh!te on the box.
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Mr_Sukebe said:
Thar mirrors my experience a few weeks ag
k it was only AKG240 into my cd player,but there was no life,it just didn't compare when listening to speakers.Headphones are just for late night as not to disturb other people,but to replace a main system they just don't compare.You guys need to try some better headphones 
No seriously though, I have had that complaint with many of the headphones I've had thus far. With my current setup (which is inexpensive) it has given me a very, very decent sound, plenty of power to the sound, even a reasonable soundstage.
You have took an overrated (IMO) headphone and powered it with one of the worst solid state headphone amps you can buy, and you are surprised it doesnt sound good?
I didnt like Stax either - too airy fairy.
And Adam, you know what I think of those AKG's
Dont write off all headphones because of your limited trials. I agree there are LOTS of pretty poor headphones out there, but when you find the good'uns they are nowhere near as bad as you say.
But yes, headphone listening is a comrpomise, but that should have been obvious from the start. However, I really enjoy mine, so its proof that a good sound can still be attained. I've been through lots of gear, and as you are aware, lots of it has left me very disappointed. Its just a case if you want to carry on trying to attain the sound you want, as its a lot of tial and error, but you will get there if you persist.
No seriously though, I have had that complaint with many of the headphones I've had thus far. With my current setup (which is inexpensive) it has given me a very, very decent sound, plenty of power to the sound, even a reasonable soundstage.
You have took an overrated (IMO) headphone and powered it with one of the worst solid state headphone amps you can buy, and you are surprised it doesnt sound good?
I didnt like Stax either - too airy fairy.
And Adam, you know what I think of those AKG's
Dont write off all headphones because of your limited trials. I agree there are LOTS of pretty poor headphones out there, but when you find the good'uns they are nowhere near as bad as you say.
But yes, headphone listening is a comrpomise, but that should have been obvious from the start. However, I really enjoy mine, so its proof that a good sound can still be attained. I've been through lots of gear, and as you are aware, lots of it has left me very disappointed. Its just a case if you want to carry on trying to attain the sound you want, as its a lot of tial and error, but you will get there if you persist.
Perhaps I was being a tad harsh,considering that there is a massive price difference between headhones against my speakers,so its not a fair comparision.
Yes the AKG is laidback to the point off a coma,I guess they are around £100 new,so for the cheap price I paid I can put up with thier inaduquices.
Yes the AKG is laidback to the point off a coma,I guess they are around £100 new,so for the cheap price I paid I can put up with thier inaduquices.
PBirkett said:
Paul,
What did you compare against the HD540 refs and the Creek OBH-21?
Clearly you have a pref for the Rega Ear, how would you describe the differences between the Ear and the OBH21?
As for your comments about "not as bad as you make out". Surely that's a reference point between my own stereo system and the headphone combo in question. Have you tried a well setup Naim Linn system at someones home?
The top end Stax Omega II headphone with the 700t tube hybrid "energiser" is great. Rather than airy fairy, I'd say they make lesser cans sound crude, and they've all the energy and control to rock as hard as you feed them.
Don't expect to be blown away though, it's just that there's nothing missing at all. They are very dynamic, but I still think need to have your whole body pulverised with waves of pressurised air to be really impressed away
Their problem is that being fast, precise and detailed in the extreme, which makes them sound rather dry and stark, and one longs for just a bit of glossy smearing. You can get a bit volume happy to compensate. Perhaps lush vinyl is their favoured source?
Senn HD600s are much more coloured, but their darker, warmer, fuller sound might appeal more.
Don't expect to be blown away though, it's just that there's nothing missing at all. They are very dynamic, but I still think need to have your whole body pulverised with waves of pressurised air to be really impressed away
Their problem is that being fast, precise and detailed in the extreme, which makes them sound rather dry and stark, and one longs for just a bit of glossy smearing. You can get a bit volume happy to compensate. Perhaps lush vinyl is their favoured source?
Senn HD600s are much more coloured, but their darker, warmer, fuller sound might appeal more.
MartinC
Trainee tea boy
Mr_Sukebe said:
Sound's like Sennheiser's to me! OK, maybe a bit of a generalisation (I've never heard the exact 'phones you own for instance, but matches my thoughts on their high end 'phones), but definitely check out some Grado and Beyerdynamic headphones before writing them all off like that. Certainly the "wooly", "leaden" and "conjested" bits anyway. As for being "gutless", well obviously 'phones lack the visceral impact of speakers played loud, but you can certainly get headphones that play music with energy and drive.
I've never heard the Creek amp you have, but the Rega Ear that Paul has been plugging is a damn fine little amp IMMHO. I did a direct comparison of the Rega Ear and the Naim Headline (costing much more, including it's power supply), and there really wasn't much in it; I think I probably prefered the Rega actually for it's bass.
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sideshowbob
Trisha
The Creek is a very decent headphone amp (I know, I had one). But not with Sennheisers. Creek amps work really well with Grados, but not with Senns IME.
Headphone listening is very different from speaker listening, for fairly obvious reasons. I really like headphone listening, the detail and intimacy can be astounding, but I can understand why some people don't, since you lose the physicality of music played through speakers. Maybe, Mr Sukebe, headphones just don't give you what you're after.
Oh, and I haven't heard the cheaper Stax offerings, but the Lambda Nova Signatures are anything but airy-fairy. They're the real deal.
-- Ian
Headphone listening is very different from speaker listening, for fairly obvious reasons. I really like headphone listening, the detail and intimacy can be astounding, but I can understand why some people don't, since you lose the physicality of music played through speakers. Maybe, Mr Sukebe, headphones just don't give you what you're after.
Oh, and I haven't heard the cheaper Stax offerings, but the Lambda Nova Signatures are anything but airy-fairy. They're the real deal.
-- Ian
