High expectations.

Well I wasn't responding directly to you.

But you obliquely referenced another thread in another place and it's obvious what the specific issue is, and I'm assuming the trigger is the new RKR ting fest. I prefer full disclosure and openness otherwise there's no basis for honest debate.

BTW the original 'Test 1 CD' plays on every player I've played it on. Not every CDR I make plays on my Linn, I suspect it's to do with tolerances for the positioning of the beginning of the track. 80minute CDs seem worse. I don't see this as a significant demerit of the CDP which has given intense service for nearly 8 years. If a CDS3 or any other 'high end' CDP performed similarly I would find that acceptable.

Paul

 

paul,
there have been a number of items, from various manufacturers, over the years that have had various problems with sample variation and reliability either anecdotally or proven. i took tom's initial post to be adressing the issue of expectation of quality in general (as he stressed) not referring to any particular piece of equipment - even though he shared the origin of his idea for the thread by saying it had been sparked off by a thread elsewhere.
as for rkr's tings, or playability of non standard cd's, i would think this outside the scope of this thread.
cheers


julian

 

It all depends on “fitness for purpose†– I have no idea if the Naim player is sold as being fit to play CDRs or not, if it is and it doesn't then there is a problem and Naim should be expected to fix or refund under guarantee. If this issue gets even the Naim forum 'nodding dogs' wound up then they do have a problem.

Not being able to play CDRs would totally rule a player out for me – I frequently get given CDs of unreleased music by friends who play in bands etc, so a player that won't play them is as much use as a chocolate teapot. This material probably accounts for 5% of my CD collection. Not everyone who plays CDRs is listening to downloaded pirated music!

Tony.

PS I'm glad this has been brought across to a forum such as ZG by “The Whinger Supreme†as like a surprising number I have no posting rights on Naim and no explanation whatsoever as to what I did wrong to get them removed!

 

Paul, The very thing I wanted to avoid was posts such as Mick's. I am genuinely interested in people's expectations in general and not specifics. As I said you can have that debate elsewhere and you can see the valuable contribution Mick has made to it. A great example of his debating skills.

FWIW Mick, your opinions count for nothing. You admit you can't hear differences in setup even when you manage to do it correctly, think spending money is the only answer to getting the most of a system and that argument consists of insulting people's intelligence rather than debating the issues. I spent the last few months off all hi-fi fora 'cos I could no longer stand the very low level of debate here but I realised that only one idiot was driving me away, and that was you. Your post above is fairly typical of the emotive non factual drivel that you put forward as intelligent debate.

Holier than thou? No, but a lot politer and judging by what I've read of your posts, a lot more intelligent. In future, unless you have something relevant to contribute do us all a favour and keep quiet.

Tom

 

They are obviously scared of you Tony!

£7K and cant play CDRs. I'd be a bit miffed too.

 

Tom,

I dont know if it helps, but there is an ignore list on this forum. You access it through the user control panel.

 

To set the record straight, there are some 200 copies of this CD-R in circulation, It was sent to 50 owners of CDS3, of which roughly half were unable to read it. Of those 50% most were returned to Naim and on return where then able to play everything and generally an improved performance on standard CDs. It has raised the issue whether the CD burner is at fault or whether the some CDS3s are leaving the factory with a "problem". No one is slating Naim and all parties concern have publicly stated their undying allegiance to the brand but because some have dared question Naim's infalibility it has raised the ire of those who are unable to read a whole post with out dribbling.

 

Ta' I'll set that up.

 

WTF is an RKR Ting?

Michael.

 

Roy Riches has been sending out a compilation disk with notes so that people can compare notes about their systems performance. It's not a finely tuned tool but it is a common point that many can reffer to.

On one of the tracks there are some extremely quiet "tings" that appear over a 15 second period. When I say quiet, I mean quiet, right in the background to a point where under normal operating parameters you won't hear them. It is a way of showing how (mains) setup brings out more detail. The tings have taken on a life of their own with those who believe that it is some what anally retentive to listen for such things and are musically irrelevant. They are right but miss the point that it is one very small test to show the level of detail possible. It is not a test of musicality and many seem to confuse the two. Those who are most vocal against the disk are those who don't believe setup is that important. On the other hand many RKR supporters cite them at every opportunity and perhaps over egg the situation.

There, more information than you needed.

 

Good question.

On a more serious note - i've been half-listening to the BBC news while reading through all this.
It concerned the current crisis in Sudan.
Puts it all into context for me.
"Naim blah blah debate blah blah CDR blah blah " :spank:

 

I view these forums as a kind of escapism. Like watching soap operas. Sometimes the world can wait a while!

 

Oh no! - I come here to escape from soap operas !!

 

No one said it was a major problem, I only started the thread for some general (non Naim loyal) opinions on a non specific idea.

 

Tom

This is getting dafter by the minute.

The RKR disc is a total joke.

I have freely admitted that I had my LHS brik wired out of phase and it still passed the RKR disc test 100%. I heard every ting etc despite being wired out of phase.

So what good is the thing, what does it prove. In fact I would commend a CDP that did not play the bloody thing.

Regards

Mick

 

Now we're making sense.

It's not a problem to not play some CDRs. It is a problem to not play some proper CDs. An adjustment that allows playing more CDRs is a good thing. I suspect there are tolerances on where the TOC is recorded that are wider with CDR, perhaps especially if you use data discs produced on a computer. Although I've no idea what Roy is currently using.

The context allows the general issue you raised here to be addressed. In this instance I cannot see anything to criticise in Naim's player or their actions. Especially since the CDR in question hasn't been shown to be 'nominal'.

BTW I have a copy of the earlier 'Test 1 CD' which is on a TDK CDR80. Current TDK CDR80s have a completely different finish on the important side. Is there anything interesting on the new one? 'Test 1' tings are over rather less than 15 seconds....

Paul

 

The new one was just some good music, Keb Mo, Porcupine Tree etc. There are no reference notes.

Those wretched tings extend between 10 & 15 seconds on my humble CDS2 but it's been a while since I bothered trying to hear them. It's not that important and certainly not something I do for fun