How far can you go?

So then WM, are those who are never happy, (you know who you are), not happy with a compromise, or have they set their perceptions too high, and what they seek is essentially unobtainable, in the real world?

 

Rewster nowt wrong with my spelling, the problems with my piss poor keyboard skills.

PS is an "M yeyes" one of a pair of "mighty bulbous la la's?"

 

Humm, I'll be back in about 45 mins, have some weights to do, I'll pond this one Paul

 

AK,

I too suffer with occasional 'banana finger', I'll leave you to wait the prescribed 45 mins for your guru's response!

 

My guru? do you see Big tone as some type of Svengali, what's your thoughts on the question?

 

Ak,
Guru me audio no sexual theropist first class with honours & plastic sheeting
Those that are never happy?, possibly we all fall into this catagory from time to time, we use our systems as references, to which we make comparisions. We might hear something occationaly that cause us to stop, ponder and exclaim "Well Feck a duck sideways" that were champion lad
We then may pick out some feature that really struck a chord with us, "Jeeze that mid range is silkier than Becky Loo's 'g' string after a session with a wild Boar .
After then analising your own system's preformance, the doubt's can start creeping in.
Most of us have been there at some point or other.
Hifi is about compremises, all we can do is lessen them, at this crossroads in time I feel nothing is close to a correct (note, not the the prefect sound, anyway what is THE sound?), yes we can reproduce major orchestrations being recreated with searing accuracy, dazzling scale and dynamic headroom & realistic concert levels.
There are those systems that major on 'Being there' with serious immedicey & atmospherics, startling bandwidth swings and a pacy (unforced) presenation, yet not so open or expansive. Which is right can you have your cake & eat it?
Preconceptions too high?, down purely to the indivdual, one person's £500 cdp is godlike anothers is merely bedroom system, does it make either one any less valid?, who ever derives most enjoyment from it, I would dare to suggest is possible in the ball park
Further to this, if for example you were considering spending £3k on a source TT/CDP/Tuner, what is your preconception of a £3k source?, in essense how good is £3k?, is it streets ahead of say a £1k source, or a mere shadow of an £8k source, what do we feel it should give us? what do we use as a preconceptual yardstick?
Is that they seek unobtainable?, this a $64K question, coming from some of the points of reference where the law of dimishing returns is well in force, then maybe it drives them even harder to find that golden dragon of sonic nirvana.
Prehaps its more of a case of horzontial movement than forward progress, for those the struggle never ends
Though most do realise that constant chopping & changing only leads to an early spot in a padded cell with white jacket and bottle of hair lotion for company
Understanding what you seek, how far is it feesably possible to travel your choosen path before mental instability sets in? This seperates the true music lovers from obessive dream chasers that move a mountain to gain a mole hill.
Others are blissifully happily emursed in their own private plane of musical existance, with an I-pod and a few dozen wav files.
hifi's a fickle game, a game none the less, you just choose how you 'play the game'
If hifi just an exscuse for grown men to hark back to their youth and play with bright and shiny things that dazzle and awe them?
Maybe a hint of truth in there but yet we do it anyway.


Throw me a penny,
And I'll make you a dream,
You lifes not always what it seems,
Think of a Rainbow and I'll make it come real
Roll me, I'm a never ending wheel.

 

Oi Steady on WM! Watershed and all

 

Pardon me, but what exactly is a "wide soundstage?"

My speakers are 5m apart, firing across a romm that's 3m wide with me in the middle. Instruments "appear" at single points along a roughly eliptical line between the speakers. Instruments on the the far left and right sound like they're just in front of or behind the speakers, and the sound stops there.

Is that a "wide soundstage?"

 

Methinks your speakers are too far apart, try 2-3 metres.


Well put big T boils down to the statement, what's Merlins 25x50" JBLs is Antonios cremona auditor.

PS and sub

 

5m apart. F**k me.

My speakers are somewhere between 2 & 2.5m apart and the optimum listening position forms (close to) an equilateral triangle with the speakers; but thats my system, my tastes.

Wide soundstage?
If you close your eyes and point at the left and right extremes of sound, is it between the speakers, or does it extend beyond them?

For example, if I perform said trick with Pink Floyd's "Brain Damage" the backing singers appear to be located about 1m outside of the respective speaker.

Trouble is, do you prefer an expansive stage with lots of space/air between each contributing intrument/voice? Or do you prefer a more "solid" sound? For me, the latter is more representative of real life.

As AK so aptly put earlier, choose your personal compromise.

 

Stunt soundstaging is a just a stunt IMO. What's more, it kills the groove and sense of cohesion between players - the sense that people are playing together as a band / orchestra etc...
MONO RULES

 

Every instrument has an appropriate size. If a system gets that right who gives a sh*t whether it's inside or outside the speaker.

Most of this stuff is almost entirely down to the recording anyway.

-- Ian

 

^^^^^^^^
What he says.

 

ian,
take away the soundstage and you only have inky blackness and filligree detail left to separate the mega buck willy wavers from the proletariat with their alba midi systems from 1987.
and that would never do.
cheers


julian

 

Martin, it's just the standard release. Look for the little Q symbol on the back of the case (down at the bottom).

This is not limited to CD releases BTW. I had the pleasure of listening to a rare vinyl "12" mix of Vogue a few months back (the standard 12" release was not in Q sound). Absolutely mental !

 

Playing with speaker positioning is a cheap and free laugh. It changes the sound masses.

I have a 20ft by 10ft (approx) living room. The speakers go along the long wall and have about 15ft between them, and are very toed in. I sit opposite. Ive tried just putting a couple of metres between them and firing down the length of the room. Ive tried it with many speakers. I definately prefer it this way. Whether thats false soundstaging or not who can say!. I think its something everyone should try personally (if they havent already) because its a remarkable difference, and free to do.

I used to read in the mags about a ''hole in the middle'' and IMHO thats utter claptrap. When you go to a concert the PA system is either side of the whole stage, and I dont hear any holes in the middle!

 

But it's in Mono.

 

Do you mean that some people claim widely spaced speakers leave a 'hole in the middle' because they are in stereo and not because they are widely spaced apart?

I cant comment on that too much, because I havent got a proper mono system, including a mono cartridge on my turntable. I can certainly say though that I have no holes - in the middle, to the side, behind the sofa or anywhere


NB
Are you sure that PA systems amplify in Mono? Surely the sound engineer doesnt put exactly the same signal through both channels? Interested to hear on that one.

 

Most, but not all, are mono.

 

A lot of my Dub really does come to life on an system that images properly. In my experience, the most important aspects of getting that right are phase coherence and making damned sure the signal reaches you at exactly the same time from both speakers (difficult in the farfield I admit).

What's the point of an engineer panning sounds all around the room if you listen on a system that cannot reproduce it?

I should add that this is of secondary importance to the largest bass cone you can lay your hands on IMO