How much has hifi gear *really* progressed lately?

Strikes that at the real top end, that some new technologies have been applied and that things might have progressed, but I don't think that's because of major improvements, more that there is now a market willing to pay for the workmanship involved.

At the more mundane level, I really don't think that major improvements have been made. Yes there's been a lot of change, but most of those appear to be following hi-fi fashion trends (e.g. move from big stand mounts to floorstanders) and I'm not convinced that all of the changes were even for the better.

 

How much has hifi gear *really* progressed lately?

After listening to my 25-30 year old speakers, I'd say not a lot!

 

Well spotted that man! Got them on eBay Deutschland and packed them of to Koblenz (one of the local Zürich dealers acts as an agent for Quad Musikwiedergabe GmbH). They are finished and the Quad man wil drop them off en route to Italy within the next couple of weeks. Something to look forward to.

 

A big return to favour of valves tells its own story.

 

Sure - but to what extent has the design and/or implementation of valve circuits improved over the years?

Stuart.

 

Valve amps seem to be using mainly similar circuits it seems to me (from my limited knowledge of electronics).

Fit and finish seems often better these days. caps and resistors have come on a peg or two, but a lot of companies still use the cheap ones.

vintage valve amps can be just as good or better than new ones. The main down side to my view is that a cap or resistor is more likely to go pop.

All just a subjective opinion of course.

I think CDP's have got better - certainly in the last 10 years or so.
I think racks and supports have got better.
speakers - I'll blame WAF for naff modern slimline floorstanders! vintage for me evertime
phono stages - I think these have got better in the last 15 years or so
turntables - some good early designs, but these have got better since the mid 80's imo.

 

CDPs have got better, but the reliability and quality of their optical components is far poorer.

 

Valves are definitely making something of a comeback, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's a fad and they don't drift out of fashion again in a few years time.

This is purely to do with the long term maintenance and convenience issues of valve amps - valves do tend to die eventually and cost money to replace, and the newer valves seem to have a lot shorter life than those old GEC and Mullards etc. Also, it's not sensible to stack your CD player and tuner on top of red hot transformers and/or valves, though I accept that the same applies to class A trannies too!

I'm speaking from experience here; I had transistor amps of decent quality from MF & Sugden for years, but was seduced by the great sound that valves can produce and swapped to an AVC KT88 (newish), then went vintage with a Leak ST20, then a pair of Quad II's and a pair of Beam Echo DL7-35's......all fantastic sounding but realistically all in need of constant care and attention.......

So, now I'm looking to return to transistors, purely for convenience, as I want to sit back and enjoy my music without worrying about whether that crackle I just heard was the amp or was on the CD...!!

P.S. returning to the original subject matter, I personally don't believe that quality has necessarily improved that much, but half-way decent gear is probably more affordable now than ever....as long as you follow your ears and not the hifi press.

The Sugden A21 I had (60's/70's) was great, but not as good as the A21a I had (current), and the relative cost in their day(s) is very similar. Draw your own conclusions.

Wot a ramble, soz.

 

I definately appreciate where you're coming from.

Ive been asking myself of late - 'why am I putting up with valves that break, occasional microphonic noises, excess heat and wasted electricity, an amp that takes 10 minutes before it sounds good - and all that general hastle!'

I sold my valve amp, and resigned myself to buying a solid state amp.

I was never happy with the idea, and I kept bringing myself back to the reason I bought valves in the first place - they just plain old fashioned sounded better to my ears. I almost always prefer the sound of a valve amp to anything else.

Given that, I've just raised my hands in the air and given up - Im buying another valve amp.

To me valve amps are a bit like the internal combustion engine. Crap, but we dont have anything better!!

 

'Donut holes have nothing in them and qualify for Atkins and Weight Watchers'
Or as Tori puts it 'you'll never gain weight from a donut hole'

Wouldnt swap my valves for anything, the difference between it and my similarly priced nu-vista was/is shocking. Keep the 250wpc I'm happy with 40 from valves.

 

I wonder if progress has been a little slow due to many companies concentrating more on the multi-channel/home cinema side where year-on-year progress has been astonishing e.g. from DPL to DD then DTS then EX, DPLII etc. On top of that we have gone from a decent DVD player costing £600 to a decent one costing £80 in just a few years.

I think there has been progress on the hifi front though - digital amps spring to mind plus I understand improvements in things like cone exersion has allowed deeper bass to be produced from smaller enclosures.

Matt.

 

Stop it, I don't want hear it!

I've been wrestling with the valves vs transistor debate in my head for weeks now, and I had just about decided to sell all my valve gear and go back to solid state......the last thing I want hear is that someone else had done exactly the same only to return to valves again....

..........Aaaarrrghhhh

 

Well I've just bought a Pansonic SA-XR70 5.1 digital amp/reciever for £298. It takes the transport signal direct and sounds excellent.

http://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13057

Perhaps the real progress is not that that things are spunding better in absolute terms, but better relative to price?

 

Digital to analogue conversion has definately improved, just look at the NOS dac!

 

why is it every bloody time I see NOS, i think "new old stock"??

Derek needs to think up another name for it!

 

haha sorry mate.

Tell you what though, those 100w Vincent SPT monoblocks that Julain2002 has sound good. They are basically mosfet mono's with a tube - I think a 12ax7 in each mono. Thats going to be about as low maintenance as valves get!.

The original non-vincent ones are available from cattylink (www.cattylink.com) for about £500. The Vincents go for about £1300 or so - and theyre damn fine value at that price.

Perhaps that would be a good 1/2 way house?

I'll dig out a pic -

 

He he he - glad it's not just me who thinks that

 

One of my II40's has just stopped working it has power the valves glow, but it doesn't get as hot as it should and gives no power to the speaker. I have swapped the valves round but still the same. Still under warranty though so not too upset, just be without tunes for a while.

 

I agree to an extent, but what you have to remember is that the classic gear that we all know and love from the 40's to 'whenever-you-think-the-golden-age-ended' was super expensive exclusive kit when it came out! I personally love all the old stuff, as I agree that some of it is just fantastic and not bettered by new stuff - I have had: Quad II, Leak ST20, Beam-Echo, big Tannoys etc etc.....but the relatively cheap and the downright crap that came out in these eras has long since been forgotten and relegated to the landfill site so that only the good stuff is still remembered. Also, until the onset of transistors and mass-production it was acceptable and much more common for enthusiasts to build their own valve amps and speakers....but not many people are going to pay good money for something some pensioner cobbled together in their shed 40 years ago regardless of how good it may sound. We're driven by the reputation of manufacturers, only time will tell how they will be remembered.

There are still manufacturers who put together well made reliable items and I have a feeling that quality gear will still last today as well as it lasted 50 years ago, as long as our 'disposable goods' mentality allows it...this includes 12" and 15" drivers (me big Tannoy fan/owner and yes I agree, you don't need a big room for big speakers to work).

But, who's going to remember 'Acoustic Solutions' or whatever in 20 years time?
:MILD:

 

I dont. I always think Nitrous Oxide aka Fast and the Furious