How will this work ?

Then I doubt I will bother posting. I can blog all I want on my own website. What people often need is pointing out that they are looking in the wrong place for their solution. This would prohibit that for me. I'm sure it would still be seen as touting if IO kept pointing people to digital correction and then had a blog saying 'I make this really great digital room correction thing'.

What I'm trying to say is I don't think you can have input from trade members without people claiming its biased in some way.

There is lots to discuss, the interesting part is relating known science to human perception and real life situations.

There are almost infinite ways to relate these principals to real life. But if a phenomenon can not even be shown to exist in the first place, further discussion is only going to be rather pointless.

For example if no one can show that putting a Cd player on a funny rack changes its output in any way, then recommendation of such a thing to improve the sound should be heavily frowned upon as it will only mislead posters.

Suggesting a better regulator on the analog output op-amps because it reduces the noise floor is fair cop.

Something general like a discussion of oversampling and non-oversampling, and the relation of each methods technical aspects to the sound they create is rather interesting too.

Still I don't expect ZeroGain to become that forum, but it would be nice!

 

But I doubt you have the footfall of non committed enthusiasts at your website that we do here Simon. Finding your website requires some commitment to the cause. Type hi-fi forum into google and I think you'll find Zerogain.

 

Well start some of those discussions Simon. They're welcome here, but you can't select your audience.

 

Forums such as this only succeed if they have a critical mass of members who are reasonably altruistic in that they are willing to share their experience and ideas with the sole aim of helping others, with no personal gain involved.

This can be diluted in at least two ways -
1) Trade members only concerned with touting their own wares (I'm not saying this happens here)

2) Opinionated members only concerned with pushing their own viewpoint without considering whether this is helpful to others - easily identified as they are usually rude and arrogant.

Both of these can be addressed by rules and moderation.
My personal opinion is that 2) above is more detrimental than traders touting their wares as it is obvious (unless someone is extremely naive) that a trader has a conflict of interest when giving advice. Most people take this into account when receiving recommendations from traders.

I feel that the decline in the forum is more related to rude and arrogant behaviour than traders. However, in the name of having an open discussion, this behaviour has been tolerated which probably should have been nipped in the bud a lot earlier.

 

I think Kmac has a nail and head interface there.

I can't be bothered with posting much here anymore for two reasons.

1. Reasonable happy with my system and have other priorities for cash these days, tho i would happily give advice if i thought it would be helpful.

2. Rude single minded people hammering there own opinions at others. There are some fine examples of being two faced as well.

FWIW: I don't see anyone overly touting products here.

 

Simon knows more than 99% of the posters on here. Should he sit quiet and let someone be that bit less informed just to uphold your new announcement? Room correction, both via physical and electronic means, is quite universal. He's one of the few who does regularly contribute something useful.

You say that ZG has lost its way? It now seems to be over compensating at the potential detriment of good advice. IMO You need to look at better moderating this place to weed out the bad. People like a relaxing, well mannered place where their views can be posted and not shot down. If that isn't the case then why bother.

So I think the reason this place has gone down hill is all the arguments and negative posting that was at its height late last year. I come here and see nothing of interest any more. The membership isn't diverse enough because its simply doesn't have the visitors. Stick 5 people in a room and they'll run out of hifi related experiences to talk about faster than 50 people. That seems to me to be what's happened.

 

No I haven't said that ZG has lost it's way, but I want to encourage more people to post. Key problems seem to be a few disruptive posters, and too much trade on the main forum.
The first issue has been dealt with, I'm now dealing with the second. We don't want people selling their products on the main page. They have a trade area for that. That's all.

 

I think you are probably right. If you pop over to PFM there are of course heated arguments, but there also seems to be a lot more light hearted banter. People here seem to be a bit too serious these days.

Having said that I think I am just a bit less interested in forums in general of late.

A good point was made earlier about the forum needing a niche. In my mind, being a 'broad church' makes it rather a jack of all trades master of none. You ask 10 people the same question and get 10 different answers, what help is that?

 

Lets hope that has the desired effect, I think it will.

It may take time for people to come back and relax, but hopefuly it will happen.

ZG was and still could be a good friendly forum. It was a shame to see it turn stale and bitter last year.

 

Thanks Andy. I hope so. Nice to see you here again. Are you still using the Meadowlarks? Mine are upstairs in a cupboard. I need to work out how to get the front baffles off so I can repair and repaint them.

 

I think it's certainly worth a go
It also doesn't seem that hard to get your head round either;
eg 'if' someone obviously has a room issue rather than their perceived cd player issue then wouldn't the right thing to do be to inform them this may be the case and in the first instance point them here?http://www.mhsoft.nl/Helmholtzabsorber.asp#PanelAbsorber

..for example, and maybe suggest there could be DSP solutions too?
ie advice without strings?

 

Quite.

Newbie, and all that, but I'm a mod on other forums and a specific forum for the mods to discuss people / posting issues I presume exists here. Usually a PM from a mod to any member is sufficient for the odd behavioural issue, deleting any offending posts. Persistent anti-social (or anti particular forum culture) behaviour results in temporary or permanent bans with IP checks to prevent malicious behaviour.

Commercial crossover into forums is a normal issue and I have to say the proposals seem sensible to me.

 

LS,
Thanks, good to be back aswell, been busy with a new hobby over the last year

Yep, still have the ML's, probably the one thing i would like to change now. I want a more robust and room filling sound. Not bothered looking for anything as i don't have the cash at the moment. Spent it all on the 'other' hobby.

What repiars need doing to your ML's?
Maybe this deserves another thread....

 

Dev, in light of what LS said (and a quick looksy around), it seems dreaming is no longer required.

I really do hope ZG can pull itself back up to where it has been before. With active posters who have interesting input.

Regarding Simon's idea of a perfect scientific forum, hmm, not for me. I prefer to have a more open minded view on things. Science may explain many things, but not every thing.

I really think that if someone wishes to spend their hard earned on monkey spunk and whale penis extract then it is their choice. If they enjoy it and get happiness who is to argue or ridicule them for it...

 

I notice on PFM people actively discourage ''thread crapping''..

an example would be - a thread on the LS35/a, ''thread crapping'' would be coming along and saying that old speakers are crap, or only big speakers are any good etc.. irrelevant to the topic at hand.

A tricky point is 'when is it thread crapping' vs when it is taking a diverse viewpoint.

 

I think that can sometimes be determined by the 'crappers' attitude.

 

Agreed and attitude is often reflected in the language used.

I think its possible to hold diverse/opposing viewpoints and still be polite.

And anyone who doesn't agree can f**k off

 

That comment was not worthy of you. I was the one who raised the question of what touting meant, actually. It was not plain to me, and quite possibly a number of non-native english members at a very minimum. The point was - is touting simply starting the thing off, unsolicited, as in door-to-door salesman, or can someone responding to a request for help by offering their own product be called a tout? The answer turned out to be yes (I think).

 

I feel sure that they will, LS.

lol

 

I'm more then happy with the change. I think all dealers have had ago at touting their products at some point on a forum, me included.

I think trade and private users should not be allowed to try an sell their equipment outside the dedicated ad areas. I have seen a lot of private users offer their gear during discussions, unless asked a direct question.