In praise of older hi-fi

They don't make 'em like they used to

Older hi-fi quite often spanks the pants off new hi-fi - especially when it comes to speakers.

Every time I hear a pair of LS3/5A's, for instance, with their gloriously open and beautifully textured midrange, it reminds me of just how influential quality engineering and an established pedigree is to the performance of a loudspeaker; sadly things lacking in many modern speakers.

Furthermore, most 'reasonably priced' modern speakers use main drive units too small for my liking. 6.5 inch bass units seem to be the norm in most of these speakers, whereas in the 70's and 80's when I was getting into hi-fi, 8 or 10 inch was the norm, and quite often even 12". The older speakers, although by no means perfect, overall, in my opinion, had a better tonality and bass due to the larger drive units and cabinets employed compared to many modern designs. I also much prefer stand mount speakers, which I nearly always find more musical sounding than floor-standing designs. This is one of the reasons why I use Spendor SP100s.

In fact, for me, loudspeakers with a BBC heritage are superior in many areas to other speakers I've heard. So let's hope Spendor, Harbeth, ATC and others keep on making them to maintain the traditions of old!

Marco.

 

For anyone interested in LS3/5As:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3053190521&category=14991

Naturally, the price won't stay there...

 

Re: Re: Re: In praise of older hi-fi

Fair enough... I'm one of the people who tolerate them at best!
Too many years of listening to poor quality bbc sound rushes through them at some unearthly hour of the morning...
Anyway - must agree on the older kit in general though - my 20something year old Ditton 66s are still going great guns.. Haven't found owt to replace them with yet until I've got some silly money spare.

 

Hey Leonard - long time no hear! Me and ilockyer were trying to remember what amps you were using last night (for some reason we were rabbiting about speakers) and he thought you had Linn and or Naim in your mix, but I didn't think you did - what do you use as amps and source again?

 

No Linn or Naim here!
Clearaudio Revolution as source, with Marantz cd63se still working as well, all going through Lumley Reference passive pre and LM120 monoblocks...
One of the Lumleys has just blown (serve me right for not having it serviced after an exciting house move), which means couriering it (all 25kgs) to JJ at Sounds of Music.
Meanwhile the venerable MF B200 is filling the void - still sounds great but just hasn't quite got that extra something of the big slipper warmers!

 

P.S. They went for £170, about the price I paid for them new in 1981. Perhaps some sense is coming to the market.

 

Tones

The seller ended the auction early, so I bet they didn't go for £170. The seller was probably offered £400 to finish it early, maybe a bit more.

 

I recommended my mate some Rega Ela Mk1 speakers for his system (Pioneer A400 / Terratec EWX24/96) and they sound excellent for £170. Not fussy on where they are placed (in this case a shoebox of a room). Quite lean sounding but very fast and nice sparkly detailed treble. Certainy MUCH better than his old Wharfedale Diamonds.

 

Arhh, the age old problem of, is the lastest the greatest? or more of a sideways slant, could be a new twist of an a old trick?
Seems we've had quite a lot of Old V's New lately, who right?, who's wrong?, does it really matter
Ya-boo just this week with the Krell & the Avi Lab amps, it's all personaly preference, it could be the very lastest all singing and dancing stereophile 24/192khz 42 dac chips in ultra tight quad parallell, with so little jitter that a ameaba farting would generate 100 time the amount but does it it sound any better?, does the very lastest mosfet amp differ that much from 1988 Poineer A400? (In sound), if it's 8 years old is it tosh?.
For sure the later equipment has geater S to N ratios & far lower noise floors, digital noise all but surpressed, fully isolated power supplies (multiples even).
Also consider, a lot of the forum community are not whipper snappers, and have 'Grown up' with certain sounds, and have become accustom to there genre'
Maybe the newer equipment, differs too much from the accepted norm?, all the the 'Next generation' of hifi users, may have not had the change to enjoy the older kit, and maybe it's too much of departure for them?
For me it's pretty clear cut, for others not so
This weekend a few of the 'old faithfulls' met up for a jaunt in the country and listen to some pretty classy (read expesnive gear), and yet the best sounds (honestly) emminated from Our own systems, not just costing far less, but sounding just so much better, cobblers you say Fair point, but to us It was blatantly obvious, based on the days listenings.
Very few pieces of kit these days plays music, most major on the presenation of the music & attempting the true realisum card, not the music itself, the kit that preforms this music best, is in my modest estimation, between 3 & 6 years old and as My wordsmith at arms Merlin also agrees, many a decent underestimated bargin to be had in this relm.
Wm

 

Wouldn't it be nice to find something new that actually did improve everyone's music listening pleasure!

On the evidence of yesterday, it's no wonder this is a dying hobby and kids are getting into MP3. Manufacturers need to learn that expensive kit needs to give people more pleasure, make an emotional connection. Seems they've been going down the wrong road for a long time now.

Worst culprits? Domestically acceptable speakers with wholly inadequate, shrunk in the wash, bass units and digital kit designed to make CD's sound more inoffensive.

So go back to he fork in the road, and by some kit from when they had some idea of what was important I say. And leave the spec chasing to the AV boys, who rerally are spoilt for choice in this area.

Whilst I'm at it, I actually quite enjoyed listening to the Quads yeaterday, and the 989's have far better bass than I remember. Still sound like a big pair of headphones though, and I found everything to be larger than life. Still, our 'Enery had a smile.

 

Wm, nice posting which I agree with especially considering pre-, amplifiers, loudspeakers (?). How do you see the latest evolution regarding cables and CD-players?

Merlin, what can improve everyone's music listening pleasure?
If everybody would take more time for listening to music and to go to live concerts in order to receive personally the 'message' of any kind of music then I think we would enjoy music more. I supose we are all in a life in which we want to do hundreds of things at the same time and at the end we cannot live everything with that intensity we could do. Then we have the pressure of the economy which wants us to consume more and more. I believe that a much better hifi for nothing would only accentuate our isolation to the rest of the world. You would IMO just stay at home mostly alone or with a very few friends listening to fantastic music.

 

hummmm even live concerts are amplified and go through speakers...a lot of them.

 

that's very true and very often the quality is worse than at home but somehow you enjoy the whole event much more than staying at home listening to it.
What I am talking is about music enjoyment, pleasure for music. In this there are also a lot of other factors like for example your eyes (show), phsycho (atmosphere)...

 

Yes, there have been a quite a few psychos at the concerts I have been to

 

Good point Titian! Stupid idea really when you could dress up, meet up with some friends, crawl around some local hostelries consuming copious quantities of alcohol, feast on a fine Turkish delicacy freshly prepared by a travelling chef, and wake up in a strange room with Medusa lying next to you in a pool of bodily fluids.

Best stick with the MP3 I feel. But just imagine if everyone could experience listening to a new piece of music at home with the same sense of occasion they might get from going to a live performance. Then people might buy the stuff and prevent the next generation of Homosapiens being born with their brain's RAM reduced in size.

 

Titain,

I feel this purely depends on what you are seeking for in your 'own personal listening space', I'm fortunate to have a brother who is, not short of a bob or 2 (depressingly unfair , who also has a passion for all thing Glitzly & trips to the USA.
So far this year, 3 pieces of new Technology that have impressed me Digitaly wise ( and Maybe would peek your interest too I feel) are Dax discrete multi format dac pre-amp/Dsd compatiable & DAX-Link ST glass optic word clock generation slaving the transport clock, superb mids and overall realisum, with clean tight and open bass, pretty good.
The Teac D70/P70 Trans/dac combo (I feel at the MO, the best all round transport, mass produced available bold statement yes, however it's top flight big boys league without question) it just says Teac on the side, image problem I feel
The best mass produced tranport availbe the P0 carriage, PLL/Word bit extraction & lock twin seperate cables FiFo buffer many times that of the chord 64,(switchable sample rates only in direct multipules), fully isolate psu's inside serious boxes 12mm copper lined chassis and 28 kg weight the BIZ (although I'll take my wadia anyday()
The last being the MSB Platunuim Link dac plus with MSB link and built in upsampling (3 times as well 133.3KHZ stunning), almost dynamic enough for me just superb (heard this with a wadia 270 se transport )
Cables, well vested interest time, yes there are some cracking cables out there, serious grain free/open ultra detail allowance & naturaliness to die for, however I have whitnessed so many varied results in different systems (from great to truely naff) It just amazes me, how this is so?
For myself personaly mains is the key, If I start again, first port of call will be the 'root cause'
This brings us back to the start, the 'end result', what is your posion sir as to how we view this, I have used some rather special speaker cables in the last month or so including the Ultimate HMS Grand Fin., humm stunning, but for all the wrong reasons for me
Technology will match on regardless, with the very lastest this and that, however there is more than a hint of truth in the 'Old ones and the best ones' Wm

 

Wm,
so if I understand your words in the right way you believe that the new stuff regarding CD-players and cables are (much?) better than the ones over 3 years ago.

 

Titian, 'Better' in they way they protray, detail/more openiness, wider stages & cleaner/deeper bass & more detail, certain advances in jitter reduction and upsampling/oversampling technology is clearly evident, however for me personaly, this takes me further away from the music I so like
For sure, presentation has come on leaps and bounds and sonic fireworks have increased with an improved 'Wow factor'
This is why I personaly prefer to enhance the older players, giving a very good trade between music & hifi, I do like an image and a stage, but I don't want an 10 foot guitarist or 15 wide drummer It must also time and have life, something which VERY few newer players can do these days
Example, 4 of the 'Goon squad' (Z/G ragtag bag of misfits ) ventured out into the wide world saturday, to listen to some 'Quality gear'
The Top rig' featured a 'World class' front end serious good pre/amps, speakers certainly unique
Yes, had a huge big open wide stage of 'Serious porprtions'. very neutral, well balanced detail aplenty, great wow'd quite a few people I've no doubt, left Robbo and myself cold, totaly clinical & dissembled the music, just ripped it apart, no cohesion what so ever, tonaly and pitch spot on, for sure, but involvement factor Zip
However, the following listening couple were 'Bowled over' with it, again Personal Musical presentation is previlant here.
Just a case of one mans meat I'm afraid, and even the very best gear, just dresses it up in a fancy way, but underneath it's still the same. Wm

 

Re: They don't make 'em like they used to

Hi Marco

I second what you said. Stick some vintage valve amps like the Leak TL12.1 or Quad II to a pair LS35a's, they just play music. Even my modern transistor/speaker die-hard friend was amazed with the midrange of such vintage system. Every time I listen to a pair of LS35a or Quad ESL57, it always makes me wonder what progress has been made in audio in the last 30 to 40 years!

Regards
Hon

 

I agree, too i hate all this techy stuff that gives you the impression it trounces all the last months competition. You would think things are substantially improving say evey 3 months.

One of the best setups I had was some leak amps driving some sensitive paper coned speakers..I regret selling.

I am going after music, not hifi!!
Having said that, I am still tempted for a pair of atc scm50s, though I think I know the result...I am finding the dac 64 a touch accurate for my tastes...I supsect I will be better with an amp like a lavardin or valves and some sensitive speakers.

anyone any exp of the sirius aka gamut?

I heard a trivista amp and cd going thro some ma gr60s on sat in preston...sounded fine at the shop low levels...spks a little tubby, and metal domed, but the music was awful, so were not showing their best