Is This The End Or A New Beginning?????????

Why are games and mobiles more important to people than music? Computer games are just another art form so I wonder why they are more popular?

I think its down to marketing mainly. People care more about having a car now than ever. They were around in the 70's but today if you are over 18-20 and don't own a car you are somehow a lesser person. In fact there was an advert for drink driving that said 'without a license you are just a kid'. How fuked up is that?! The same is true of having the latest mobile. Without a new Nokia '093xxX' with built in CrapSoundâ„¢ to annoy everyone around, you are to be laughed at. Its all marketing in one form or another and that causes peer pressure to own these things.

How can we get peer pressure to tell everyone that if they like music they need a decent pair of speakers?

p.s. sorry I've been drinking a little!
 
For me it's simple, the mass of "music" these days is mostly ticking and banging noises with repetitious vocals sprinkled amongst the fuzz, it's throwaway, expendable, they (the Music Industry Dogs) have one interest, to sell the Face, the name and the fizzy pop nightlife to the empty headed that know nothing but.
How many tracks do they fit on these Pod gadgets ?, i wouldn't know, let's say a thousand, a thousand tracks in a little box..and if one song is as rough as a witches butt in the first, imagine a thousand of them..then there's 'listen to this', 'listen to that', 'oh have you heard' and 'you must hear the latest' etc etc and all in the space of a minute.

So a change the way people hear comes with the change in the way they think, music has to be of better quality, it needs to allow for contemplation.....a slowing of the clock, but try teaching a hyena on speed to sip it's soup.
 
Just for another perspective...

I think it is the mainstream music lover that has it right, and the obsessive audiophile that has it wrong.

These days, CD players and amps when carefully auditioned blind and level matched, sound more alike than dissimilar - regardless of brand or price - assuming a competent, well designed and engineered product. That could be a Phillips, Naim modified Phillips, Pioneer, or a Goldmund modified Pioneer CD player for example.

Speakers, rooms and recordings are the last devices/frontiers where you tend to get any noticeably significant difference in sound commensurate with your outlay.

Mainstream music lovers listen to, and enjoy the music, and don't worry about the kit overly much. Audiophiles, use the music to listen to what their kit is 'doing' to/with the music, and how it is presenting it, and mistakenly confuse the quality of the music replay, for the subtle at best differences in sound that spending mega bucks on CD players and amps makes.

As a trained classical musician, I've been hooked/caught up in the HiFi high-end scene and my view now having been there and done that, is that it is mostly a waste of time and money unless you are the sort of listener who listens obsessively to his kit for hours on end, and plays up minute differences into major and 'must have' ones to justify the extreme cost and/or ones personal Hi-fi obsessions.

Rightly so, I think folks with a love of music, but a more balanced perspective on life, look askance at the audiophile world for the obsessive hobby that it is... just like many other obsessive hobbies that middle aged men seem to indulge in, - and choose not to go there.

That does not mean one 'only' needs a basic mini-system for good sound, as in 'real' 'natural' musical reproduction etc - the likes of one of the new Cambridge Audio amps and speakers to taste will add scale, bandwidth and detail over any mini-system, and take you to 95% of where even the most esoteric 2 channel systems will dare to tread... and for a comparably insignificant amount of money.

Do not make the mistake of confusing sound quality with audiophile obsessiveness - the two are not the same and most people are not fooled into believing it, as the facts, and usually the listening, when done with an open mind, does not support it.

Regards

Jon...:)
 
Tenson said:
Why are games and mobiles more important to people than music? Computer games are just another art form so I wonder why they are more popular?
Click to expand...

Simply because they exist mean that some people would prefer them to music. I.e. they now have a choice and music is only one of them, and not the only choice.
 
Johns Naim said:
I think it is the mainstream music lover that has it right, and the obsessive audiophile that has it wrong.

Jon...:)
Click to expand...

I agree with much of your post. I would not want more people to become obsessed 'audiophiles'. But a nice pair of speakers on the end of a reasonable amp will take an iPod to a new level. No need for fancy cables, stands, or any equipment that costs more than a couple of hundred squids a pop.

Sadly most of what people listen on is far worse than that. The TV is quickly becoming the main 'music center' in peoples homes, and a mobile phone with really bad headphones when they are out and about. It is scary how people will listen to that sort of thing when it hardly sounds like music at all.

The hi-fi industry is being squeezed at the moment and as such it is becoming more and more 'high-end' so you will see more dodgy tweaks and audiophile behavior that just help fuel the self destruction.

I really hope that things like small active speakers that connect wirelessly to computers, iPods and DVD players take off and re-introduce the mass market to better sound. Then they may explore a bit higher up the chain too. At the moment those things are still quite unheard of and a big market push by philips, sony, panasonic etc might help. Most likely they would keep the features and cut the quality though...
 
Your discussion can be applied to all countries. Now why the shows in contries like France, Germany and Italy are much more bigger, interesting and followed?
There must be something country dipendent in all of this. The dealers in all countries seem to me to have the same goals and reach them in the same way. Also the modern listening habits (iPods for example) are common for all countries.

I agree that 12£ is very high, much more than in other countries where you get to see 5 to 10 times more.
 
the shows are cottage industry back water hotels with scant publicity.

viewers can see old fellas with plastic bags and monotonous music in drab hotel rooms.

I bet they don't copy THAT formulae abroad! :D
 
Tenson said:
I think one of the biggest issues with the show is the ticket price. How can you ask £12 a person? Each exhibitor is already paying nearly £2k to be there. IT needs to be £5 a person and then maybe more people, young people perhaps, would attend. There also needs to be less plinky music. I had quite a few people in the AudioSmile room when I put on Ice Cube's latest album :)
Click to expand...

Hi Simon,

I agree the price is too high. It needs to come down or there need to have more attractions. But it needs more than just a cheap price to attract young people.

At around £2000 upwards, it not surprising that some companies are not doing shows. For some companies, they can afford this type of publicty but for others it is not the most cost effective way to promote the company & get sales.

I agree the music at shows should be more adventurous. a wider selection of styles should be used. I played a Temptations track in Simon's room which was a class piece of Pyschedelic soul. It didn't clear the room. One person on his way out, at the end of the track, thank me for putting on something different than the usual type of hifi music.

By putting different music can create good interest and a good vibe.

SCIDB
 
Many years ago at the Montreal Show, Yoshi from 47 Labs encouraged me to play a TOOL CD on his system. We sat and listened for almost 35 minutes. He had this stupid "this is so awesome" smile on his face the entire time. Before I left, he asked if he could buy the CD from me. I let him keep it without taking a dime. The thought that audiophiles were going to be forced to open their minds and ears to something other than Patricia Barber or Diana Krall on his system made it a worthy donation.

I've been attending audio shows since I was 18, and for the most part the music has sucked. Some manufacturers get it and play great stuff. Some play the same lame music and don't care. It's about hearing the "audiophile" things that convince customers to upgrade.

When people walk out of a room because the music wasn't approved by HP or RG, they look like total losers.
 
Since when has hifi been a young person's hobby?Never.
As other people have said most people used music centres-a particularly nasty Fidelity job with plastic speakers comes to mind as being very popular,very few used a 'good' walkman either but the idea of getting/wanting a better sound wasn't encumbered by the elitism attached to audio nowadays.
There's plenty of this wank in evidence on many audio fora-it puts Joe Schmo off.
So does the idea that this £1000 piece of kit wont sound/can't sound any good unless it's linked with expensive cables and sitting on virgins nipples-it all comes across as a pain in the arse where the entrant is soooo far off the high end, the stuff thats 'real' hifi, he decides to say bugger that I'm off to Dixons.
Richer Sounds has done more to keep the industry alive than any audiophile dealer-their approach is no nonsense, it's easy to get good sound and they display a complete lack of snobbery.Many of us started our hifi passion via mail order out the back of hifi answers or a visit to Comet or Laskys.
This poncy hifi dealer route puts people off with its pseudo gravitas.
 
HiFi shows need to have a broader appeal if they are going to survive.
Firstly, should include brands we don't consider. Should include mainstream products. Also include AV!

Most people have never heard of the stuff we like - if you get them to a "Home Entertainment - HiFi and AV" show, they will be drawn by the latest huge screen, lazeeboy and 15 speaker cinema rooms, but while there will have a nosey at the other stuff and possibly become a little enlightened.
Even if not - being a broader appeal show will then give a bigger budget to put more entertaining things into the show (such as live acts etc) which could then justify the entrance fee.

Currently, I (and many others I guess) have little inclination to pay money out just to be marketed at.
 
Johns Naim said:
Just for another perspective...


Mainstream music lovers listen to, and enjoy the music, and don't worry about the kit overly much. Audiophiles, use the music to listen to what their kit is 'doing' to/with the music, and how it is presenting it, and mistakenly confuse the quality of the music replay, for the subtle at best differences in sound that spending mega bucks on CD players and amps makes.


That does not mean one 'only' needs a basic mini-system for good sound, as in 'real' 'natural' musical reproduction etc - the likes of one of the new Cambridge Audio amps and speakers to taste will add scale, bandwidth and detail over any mini-system, and take you to 95% of where even the most esoteric 2 channel systems will dare to tread... and for a comparably insignificant amount of money.

Do not make the mistake of confusing sound quality with audiophile obsessiveness - the two are not the same and most people are not fooled into believing it, as the facts, and usually the listening, when done with an open mind, does not support it.

Regards

Jon...:)
Click to expand...

Theres definately some truth in this post. I'd beg to differ a little though. IME there is a world of difference in listening to a good high end system and something mid-fi. Its not that a mid-fi system can't sound wonderful with the right record, more it can leave more records sounding dull and uninspiring. Where one arrives at thier own mid-fi/high-fi/satisfaction point is I guess very personal. Plenty fall into the trap described, I've reached a point where cost/benefit is called into question but I still hanker from time to time.

In the past some music I like wouldn't get a play on some systems I've owned. The fact I can put an album on and know it will sound 'right' has opened all sorts of new musical avenues for me. Thats the beauty of a good system.

I don't know anyone with a system like mine. That doesn't mean those I know don't appreciate it. How many people have the time, space or are that commited to listening to music these days to justify the expense? Far more likely in the context of work and family to relax in front of the tv/movie with tunes on in the background from time to time. We are the lucky few..!

Re the thrust of the original post. Highend audio has always been a niche but its a fairly big niche offering rich diversity. Product, distributors and customers are all out there. There are a hell of alot more £3k speakers let alone 2 channel systems sold in this country than £3k bicycles for example!

People go to shows because they are excited by whats on offer. Theres a lot less on offer at hi-fi shows these days...
 
It is disheartening that the show failed to the expectations. the ticket price was one big issue.
 
i agree on the issue of the ticket price was ott, however the enthusiasm of manufacturers and distributers are somewhat very upstard towards the young generation and old enthusiast of this once a wonderfull hobby and trade, no longer they care for the young enthusiast for their biguinig of their musical pleasure but more inclined to sell over priced goods, the whole industry is gone the way of avarice, we, " i think most of us" still have an enthusiiasm on hi-fi ,music, and most of all that hobby of the trade shows when we all shared opinions and other issues, and went home happy to meet the makers, a great fun weekend, now who has killed that?
nando
 
MY VIEW:
as i think persoanally, having done shows and asisted many a manufacturers on many a shows for over35 years including the good old days in the GRAND shows in OLYMPIA london, those days tought young people who where interested in those wonderfull instruments fascinating bit's of hi-fi that they would home and dream of getting their favourite music system that they even neglected their girfriend just to save their money eiher from paper rounds or other, the issue that i am tring to make here is in those far agone days manufacturers and dealers alike gave a damm about the little ones and music,
nando, p.s. the little ones became the biggest buyers.
 
Well I got into hifi at 18 and have since convinced my sis to put a full AV system and 2 stereos in her house. Dad is similar and friends have good systems now too. Mostly it's education, I guess you can call that marketting. Blowing people away with high end kit makes them realise what they're missing. Yes the iPod is here to stay when I started out it was walkman then personal cd.

It does take time to get into things too, I now drink wine and wouldn't of touched it when I was 20.

However my biggest annoyance of all time is the push of lifestlye products. Mum's perfectly happy to have a full hifi in the lounge, but I double she would be if I took her to a B&O or Bose dealer and showed her the kit there, much smaller neater and the girls know about it so we're in trouble! The hifi designers should consider wife friendly ranges that have as much style then it'd be easier to sell. I also agree that getting this stuff into the big shops would be a real plus. If you're not into hifi you wouldn't usually go into a hifi shop.

Although I must moan for once about hifi shops. Get a demo room of great kit and get people in! You'll be suprised how many people will save up if you blow them away with gear. Most dealers are very off putting and you get the impression they're checking your interest in buying before anything else. This should change. Get people in who weren't thinking seriously and maybe one day they will be!

Nuff rambling from me... Tim
 

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