It says it all to me

i see foxes, deer and some sort of stoaty / weasley things quite regularly when i go walking / jogging in the local woods where i live. when i used to live in rural yorkshire (on the edge of emley moor) we used to have terrible problems with the local wildlife ripping open our bin bags on bin day. you'd walk outside and the road would look like something out of 28 days later. thank god for wheely bins.
cheers


julian

 

We were born to eat meat. Plants are living things too.

Either eat what you're supposed to be eating, or starve to death, 'cos as far as I can see ALL living things on earth have a right to live. I don't see that eating a cow is any worse than eating a broad bean or an apple.

In fact, in terms of apples etc, you're effectively killing another tree's foetus, so starve to death or eat everything.

:duck:

Seems simple enough.

I don't agree with the hunt, but I can see why they feel the need to do it. There's got to be a better way, but what is it?

BTW - fish and sweetcorn should be wiped out. Yuk. :chunder:

 

I haven't read the whole thread so appologies if this point has already been made.


Why should fox hunting as a sport be allowed to continue?

I would maintain that the only reason it still exists is that it is a sport for the gentry of this country. All of the other animal sports have been made illegal. ie (dog fighting etc). They all just happened to be the pursuits of the working classes.

All the other arguments about jobs, culling "vermin" etc are just justifications for what is essentially the only animal blood sport still allowed in this country. The only reason they have been accepted for so long is because it is the very classes that enjoy them that sit in Parliament and the Lords deciding whether or not it should be banned.

In this day and age I refuse to believe that there aren't alternative ways to control the fox population. I'm not even so bothered if killing with dogs truely is the most humane way to kill a fox, (something else I find exceptionally hard to believe). I'm more bothered by the enjoyment that humans get from the activity.


GTM

 

GTM, nail on the head!

 

Why is fishing not a blood sport then?


Ps. After thinking about this I see majority here have the opinion foxhunting the traditional way is disagrable. The reason given is simply it is looks disgusting in your eyes. It seems to be a richman sport and we don't like to see you having fun. Fair enough. Maybe the better debate is how to you relate this opinion to them?

 

GTM - you said what I wanted to say earlier much more concisely. I agree totally.

Michael.

 

This is what it's actually about, 'toffs'. Nothing to do with cruelty at all.

Fox hunting is a more honest pastime than pheasant shooting, fishing managed rivers and lakes or keeping hamsters in cages. Yet fox hunting is the one that attracts the bile.

I detest hypocrisy and tyranny even more than I detest hunters.

Paul

 

Paul, I don't think you can generalise in the way you have done. As far as I am concerned it's cruelty, nothing to do with "toffs". I'm personally not in favour of pheasant shooting or keeping hamsters etc. etc.

Edit: I hate hunters in general but especially the ones killing the big cats for glory/money ,but that's a different argument/thread altogether.

 

paul,
spot on there. it's not about cruelty it's about class.
one thing to ponder on is that foxes are officially classed as vermin ok? how long will it now be until they are endangered as they have no further use to man? i'm sure most farmers will now just poison or gas any foxhole they come across - or send their terrier down there to rip the fox cubs apart along with their mother. i'm guessing in a few years time the fox will be another rarely seen sight in britain. nice one labour and the bleeding hearts. what's that saying? the road to hell is paved with good intentions? seems about right to me.
cheers


julian

 

Paul - as GTM said, it's because it's "toffs" that do it that it's lasted so long and not the reason for people wanting it abolished. The hypocrisy is the upper classes deeming that dog fighting amongst the riff-raff is cruel and should be banned, yet their own equally cruel fox hunting is quite OK and how dare anyone tell them what to do .

With respect, that's utter bollox.

Michael.

 

Dog fighting (and cock fighting, badger baiting etc) in no way equate to hunting. Banning hunting will not reduce the total cruelty. The one good thing is that the fox population in the country will drop while continuing to rise unchecked in the towns. I don't see Islington welcoming fox control officers prowling the streets at night with pump action shotguns.

Julian, it's not about class, it is about prejudice, ignorance and arrogance.

Paul

 

michael,
there are plenty of other cruel practices (some more so than fox hunting - battery farming and animal mutilation to fit more animals into a given space for instance) however fox hunting is the only one that has class connotations. this is why i say it's a class thing as there are no election promises to end battery farming now are there?
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julian

 

No, but there was outcry about it, when it became known.

 

so battery farming, animal mutilation and all the other cruel practices that prop up our society are unknown?
cheers


julian.

 

ok, so my wording is wrong. i'm sure you know what i mean.

 

Paul - it's not about hunting per se, it's the way in which it's done. If foxes really are a problem in the country then why not hunt them with a shotgun or rifle? As for foxes being a problem in city areas, I doubt it somehow. I see the odd fox every so often around Wandsworth but it's nothing more than a curiosity.

Julian, much as I object to battery farming (indeed, any kind of factory farming of animals) it's done to provide cheap food for the masses and not, as is the case with fox hunting, to provide jolly japes for the Hooray Henries for when they're not buggering the butler.

Michael.

 

so it IS a class thing then michael.

as for hunting them with a rifle - i doubt it would be economical - just find the holes and lob some poison / gas / small dog down them. the idea now is just to kill them.
cheers


julian

 

Not really a class thing for me, It gets mentioned, mainly because it is a certain class, (or it aristrocrasy?) that is involved.

Its purely the cruelty aspect that i dont like.

 

It is a class thing but not for the reasons you or Paul seem to think. The class aspect is why it's survived so long. It's got nothing to do with why people want to get rid of it.

Hunting them with a rifle would be a damn sight more economical than trying to track them down with 30 hounds and god knows how many people with a broomhandle up their arse following on horses.

Michael.

 

yes but the hunt is actually a reason to conserve the foxes (you can't hunt without foxes now can you and the hunt generates revenue for the farmers who's land is used)
now that hunting is banned (or will be in 2006) there is no reason for farmers to put up with them so finding a fox hole and lobbing something nasty down it will be the way to go (you get several generations at once then) not shooting them one by one.
cheers


julian