Looks like Bush

julian2002 said:
perhaps the most compelling argument to join the EU yet? rather the french than the americans at present.
cheers
julian
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Yes indeed.

Americans are cowards. They only attack weak and poor nations. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq. Has anyone noticed how they back off from trade wars with the EC?

Fundamentals are such that, right now, US need rest of the world than rest of the world needs US. EC and other countries still have the economic muscle to bring US into line. Time to act is here and now. Clip the wings of this evil and hungry eagle. Putting effective pressure on US to ratifying the Kyoto protocol will be a good starting point.
 
7_V said:
I for one am disgusted. How dare those fu*k*ng Americans vote for their own man and totally ignore the wishes and demands of us Europeans?
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Yeah, sure! :rolleyes:

And how dare those fu*k*ng Americans decide who should be the members of the new govt in Iraq?
 
As for your "god given right to vote", that's an odd way of looking at it. AFAIK none of the scriptures of the major world religions refers to voting and democracy. There is no line in Genesis that I remember that says "And God created man, and gave him the right to vote for his choice of government" . I think you'll find your right to vote is a legal one, not a god given one.
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I said that as i thought it sounded more dramatic, you picked up on it and quoted me so my plan obviously worked. OK then, my legal right to vote. You win , anything for an easy life ;) .
 
7_V said:
Believe it or not, Julian, there are many people in the UK who believe that the BBC is an unbiased organisation with no axe to grind.
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Another excellent point - that's twice I've found myself in agreement with you today.

Matt.
 
merlin said:
My guess would be that Clinton will win next time but by then, the US's standing in the world will be irrepairable.

One thing it shows is the power of the US domestic media. It appears that the vast majority of city dwellers, many of whom will have access to international news and viewpoints through the internet, wanted Bush out in all the main swing states.

Those living in small town America, fed the staple diet of CBS & ABC, seem to be completely oblivious to the damage caused to America's standing by the current administration.

I am seriously tempted to sell up all my American goods and boycott American companies in future purchases. Maybe if the global community creates it's own form of economic sanctions on the corporations of America (pending regime change of course), we can have our say and exert pressure by hitting them in their pockets. It needs some like minded individuals to get something rolling via the internet.

Think about it, would your lives really be made poorer by not giving money to the likes of Microsoft, Nike, McDonalds, Apple and the like?
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Couldn't agree with you more.
Our leader is in bed with that god damn son of a Bush but we as consumers still have some power.
 
michaelab said:
What's needed is for Europe to unite against the US, not necessarily in an antagonistic or agressive way but to provide balance so that the US can't just trample rough shod over the rest of the world.

Michael
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OMG - lets hope that never happens.

I really don't think we can complain over here in the UK, after all didn't we re-elect a Euro Obsessed Maniac who seems hell bent on giving up every thing to the Euro Gravy Train?

Another vote for Blair is a vote for the Euro Jack Boot.

No Thanks - I'd rather become another state of America.
 
michaelab said:
I fit that description and am proud of it. However, I'm sad to say that I'm pretty sure I'm in a minority on here and most other hifi fora, except perhaps on the issue of hating Bush. This forum in particular seems to have a rather disturbing (to me) right wing slant as far as its members opinions go.
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Why are you disturbed by people being right wing? I'm proud to fit that description but, extreme right wing groups aside, I can't see how subscribing to the Conservative ideology of small, non-interfering government and low taxation (i.e. let the people keep more of their money so that THEY can best decide how to spend it) should disturb anyone.

What I personally find disturbing on the left side is not the traditional old Labour lot, it's the New Labour bunch who have done very well out of the capitalist system, often own several properties and substantial share portfolios, send their kids to selective schools etc, etc, but then preach to the electorate that no-one should own more than one house and that the comprehensive education system is all anyone needs. In other words - do as I say not as I do - bloody hypocrites!

Not suggesting for a minute that you fall into this well-to-do, preach-what-you-don't-practice brigade Michael but I do wonder how your polictically incorrect (high emissions/poor economy) M3 fits in with your environmental and social conscience.

Matt.
 
michaelab said:
What's needed is for Europe to unite against the US, not necessarily in an antagonistic or agressive way but to provide balance so that the US can't just trample rough shod over the rest of the world.
Michael
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Cold war period was bad but the unilateralism is a greater danger to our existence more than ever before.

Hope for the future is not siding with the evil that is US.
Our real allies are in the EC not in the US.
 
Matt F said:
...but I do wonder how your polictically incorrect (high emissions/poor economy) M3 fits in with your environmental and social conscience.
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We'd better not go there, Matt. That way leads to disaster. I can just see hoards of torch-carrying forum members burning and looting the houses of anyone who owns an energy-inefficient class 'A' amplifier.
 
Matt F said:
I can't see how subscribing to the Conservative ideology of small, non-interfering government Matt.
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Matt,

Isn't that rather at odds with the Republicans' rather forthright policies on stem cell research, abortion, foreign affairs etc etc.....
 
joel said:
We all know what happens when you let Euorpeans loose with real power: Kaiser Bill, Napoleon, Adolf, Julius...
America is essentially democratic (it could and should be more democratic and better run, but there you are. It is what it is). Europe OTOH is a technocratic shambles that will not not have any say until it figures how how to wield power and walk on it's own two (or six or eight...) feet.
Dream on.
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Does anyone really think that US have a democratic govt?
A govt. OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE and FOR THE PEOPLE?
As declared by the Founding Fathers?

Democracy in US got basterdised by the corporates, freedom of thought controlled by the media and it has a president who is a puppet of the oil tycoons that put him in place.
 
I can't see how subscribing to the Conservative ideology of small, non-interfering government and low taxation (i.e. let the people keep more of their money so that THEY can best decide how to spend it) should disturb anyone.
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Because it's usually a pretext for the rich and powerful to stomp all over the poor and weak. What happens if you don't have the money to choose your own health insurance? You go without, I guess, just as 40 million Americans do.
 
BlueMax said:
Hope for the future is not siding with the evil that is US.
Our real allies are in the EC not in the US.
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Absolutely right.

In fact, if it wasn't for the evil US, we EC members would be far closer than we are today, albeit German speaking, jackboot wearing and probably calling the US a load of *****-footing lefties.
 
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Jeesus - We would be listening to oompah bands too!

Thank you USA for all you have done - I guess we owe you a favour or two.
 
Matt F said:
Not suggesting for a minute that you fall into this well-to-do, preach-what-you-don't-practice brigade Michael but I do wonder how your polictically incorrect (high emissions/poor economy) M3 fits in with your environmental and social conscience.
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In other words, you are implying that I do fall into that "do as I say, not as I do" brigade ;)

As for the M3, I do about 2-3000 miles a year in it, 90% of those being non-urban miles. I'm putting out far fewer emissions over a year than the average car user.

7_V said:
many people in the UK who believe that the BBC is an unbiased organisation with no axe to grind.
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And they'd be correct. However, the truth always appears biased to those who are hurt by it.

Michael.
 
There's a lot of racism being displayed on this thread. But I guess that's OK if it's just dumb old Americans you hate.

Matt forgot about Michael's two-dwelling-international-commute lifestyle not to mention the working for a bank...

Paul
 
merlin said:
Matt,

Isn't that rather at odds with the Republicans' rather forthright policies on stem cell research, abortion, foreign affairs etc etc.....
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I meant our Conservative party, not theirs and, for what it's worth, I'd make being an atheist a compulsory condition of running for President, Prime Minister or World Leader.

Actually, what is scary is that if a US presidential candidate admitted to being an athiest, he or she wouldn't stand a bloody chance.

Matt.
 
7_V said:
Absolutely right.
In fact, if it wasn't for the evil US, we EC members would be far closer than we are today, albeit German speaking, jackboot wearing and probably calling the US a load of *****-footing lefties.
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US is self glorifying about WW2 but it is enough to cause annoyance to many Europeans against the US over it's own opinion on it's activities during WW2. America's late arrival in the war is not something they should boast about.

In the film Saving Private Ryan (based on a true story of a British expedition to rescue British prisoners), where an all-American ground force takes on Germany; whereas America sent very few soldiers into war. America only began to send men into the war against Japan after Pearl Harbour, and the numbers and aid that America put into the world are pale in comparison to the massive war efforts conducted by Russia (who crushed Germany with 20 millions of ground troops), France (for it's bitter, endless and determined self defence) and the UK. The UK's air force and special forces were consistently very brave and effective (even though some of ground invasions of Germen held territory were ludicrously ill fated).
America did supply vast amounts of material goods, but it did not commit, or it's soldiers, into combat wholeheartedly. America's most consistent aid was against the Japanese, and not until Japan attacked America directly, and even then America eventually resorted to the massively indiscriminate nuclear bombs rather than "waste" men on resolute Japan.
America appears to be very self-glorifying, and there are multiple generations in the UK, France and Europe who upset and angry with America's rewriting of history. Russia's men, France's entire population, and UK's air force, were the principal opponents of Germany, aided by American equipment, for which we are grateful, but it annoys some people (it used to annoy me, as you can tell, until I sold my soul) enough that I consider it a reason, related to patriotism, that people hate the USA.
 
Meanwhile, and remember you read it here first, could the next President of the USA be a woman?

It would appear that Hilary Clinton has much to gain by Bush's victory. She's now free to win the Democratic nomination and fight for president in 2008.

Meanwhile, Dick Cheney, who has no major political ambitions and has had 4 heart attacks, could step down as vice president, leaving Condoleezza Rice, the National Security Adviser as one of the main contenders for the job.

So, 2008, Rice v Clinton (Mrs.). Should we start the thread now?
 

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