Moerch arm questions

joel said:
No. I put it there. Something slightly silly about the the way the NAS mounting system works is that the arm can be skewed vertically depending on how you tightly you do the mounting screws. Getting the arm perfectly upright isn't quite as important with a unipivot as with other types, but it doesn't hurt either.
Couldn't spot any changes when we changed the bright red cable that came with my arm to the wanky wire. I don't think this is worth futzing with TBH.
Click to expand...

I see. Good idea though! :cool:

A browse through the vinyl asylum suggests that the stock cable from the older Morch arms is a weak link and it can be significantly bettered. You have the red lead, ie, the TCI Viper cable. This is something Moerch brought in to improve things and TCI's cable is quite well regarded. Perhaps this is why you didn't notice much change in the sound...

I will give a silver wire a go and see what happens. Will let you know once I do.

This weekend I re-set my arm to use the heavier weight close to the arm as possible, as per your instructions. It is sounding pretty good. I only need the big weight and the smaller of the weights (the one not used for azimuth setting) to achieve the 2g tracking force for the cart. The azimuth looks good, and the anti-skate is quite minimal using your method. No extra windings on the little screw, and about two thirds of the way in... it sounds good, so I hope I got it right this time. :)

Thanks a lot for all your help!!

Jack
 
joel said:
No. I put it there. Something slightly silly about the the way the NAS mounting system works is that the arm can be skewed vertically depending on how you tightly you do the mounting screws. Getting the arm perfectly upright isn't quite as important with a unipivot as with other types, but it doesn't hurt either.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I've fitted a few different arms to my NAS and am having difficulty understanding how you could fit an arm anything but upright (not saying you are wrong, juts unsure how is all). Whic mounting screws do you mean?
 
I assume Joel means the 2 hex headed screws on the outside edge of the mounting collar which houses the arm collet. Its possible to do these up so that, as they tighten the collet against the arm base, the arm base ends up at a slight angle because the screws have pushed it over. I noticed this more when I had my Syrinx PU3 fitted to my Spacedeck than I do with the Spacearm there at the moment, although its possible to do it with the Spacearm too.

PS - hope you are well, Uncle T.
 
Okay, all the bits needed to install the UP4 have now arrived and I have a bit of spare time to try the install.

The arm is on the Spacedeck with what I believe to be the specified 212mm pivot to spindle distance set correctly. My cartridge (a Denon DL-103r) has to have its front edge about 5mm off the front the arm tube to get close to the 66mm alignment point user a Baerwald protractor, but the Denon's front edge isn't parallel to the grid in this position.

Can I just ask those using the UP-4 on a NA turntable what pivot to spindle distance you have it set at, and also whether your chosen cartridge is parallel to the 'headshell' front and sides when the alignment is correct? I'm happy to muck around with this until its spot on but just wondered how others have theirs. Photos could be useful.

Thanks,

Chris.
 
Hi Chris,

Glad you got everything and are ready to go. Must be quite exciting. :)

The distance you need from the pivot point to centre of spindle is 212mm (assuming you are not using a 12" armtube). You can set this by moving the armpod, if necessary. To move the armpod, there's a small screw under the plinth, you can't miss it.

I didn't use the same protractor as you, I used the Kearns protractor as I like to follow the line and have as many points to adjust as possible. I used a Baerwald protractor in the past and always found it difficult to get the cart perfectly aligned on both points (with the body parallel). I think you need to choose one to be precise and make the best of the other. I tend to align the inner point better because the grooves on the inside of the disk tend to distort more (in my experience) already... others no doubt will do differently.

Hope this helps. Have fun and let us know what you think of the arm!

Jack
 
Thanks, Jack.

Out of curiosity, are the sides of your cartridge parallel to the the sides of the UP4's headshell when the cart is aligned on your protractor?
 
Goomer said:
Thanks, Jack.

Out of curiosity, are the sides of your cartridge parallel to the the sides of the UP4's headshell when the cart is aligned on your protractor?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. It is to the protractor that you have to align it to. In my case the cartridge is not aligned to the headshell at all (I mean it is not a million miles away but it is clearly not aligned to it). :)

Also, make sure you set the overhang and the arm height right! Overhang makes a big difference when aligning the cart. If it is not set right you won't be able to get it aligned properly.

Hope you are having fun! :cool:
Jack
 
For information purposes more than anything, I found that the Koetsu needs almost no anti-skating. This surprised me a bit hence thinking it was wrong.

Les at Walrus have since confirmed to me that a) koetsus and calibration records/torture tracks dont mix :rolleyes: and b) they use very little to no anti-skating so although ymmv I thought this may be useful to someone in the future.

Cheers everybody!
jack
 
Hope you are having fun!
Click to expand...

Fun like you wouldn't believe!

I was driving myself nuts with not being able to keep the cartridge parallel to the headshell whilst also having it aligned to the protractor at the specified 212mm mounting distance - it seems that I needn't have worried about it so much and just got on with listening to some music. There is probably a lesson for us all in there somewhere...

Thanks for your help - I may post a picture of the final set up when I get a chance to sort it out later on, hopefully today if I get the other work done that I need to before I run out of daylight.
 
Goomer said:
Out of curiosity, are the sides of your cartridge parallel to the the sides of the UP4's headshell when the cart is aligned on your protractor?
Click to expand...
My arm is set up with an effective length of 230mm, which comes out as 211mm pivot to spindle + 19mm overhang. This according to my spreadsheets (and listening) gives the lowest overall distortion using the Vinyl-Alignment system. The cart is pretty much exactly centered. Setting the cart is the one real pain of the Morch system, with the non-precision arms anyway.

Joel
 
Some recent fun with the Frankenguage, a mutant cross between Dr Feickert's system and the Vinyl Alignment system...

416926458_951dcc7284_o.jpg


416926431_3c7f5a7736.jpg


http://www.feickert.com/

http://www.vinylalignment.co.uk/intro.asp
 
Thanks for your reply, Joel - a picture/thousand words and all that.

Do you find that the Vinyl Alignment Solution works well? Having read the information on their website I am curious about it (I'm also very curious about the Feickert system but cannot justify the cost at the moment).
 
As you can see from the photo neither works perfectly on its own. The Feickert system would work very well if he had printed an overhang gauge on one side of the record and it came with the vinyl Alignment's spreadsheet tools. The vinyl alignment is very interesting, but the gauge is a crap piece of card that is not up to the job at all.
Of the two, the Feickert is better, but it locks you in to Feickert's idea of what the optimal curve is.
One interesting thing to note is that the pivot point of the Morch shifts slightly when it is swung out on a record!
 
Does it really?! I must check that out, never noticed it!

Interesting combination you use for alignment, Joel. Still it slightly p*sses me off that one spends as much as one can do on the Feickert tool and it still doesn't do everything...

I wonder how good (in comparison to these) the project alignment tool is. It costs a fair bit less and it supposedly allows overhang adjustment... I wonder if it applies to Pro-ject tts only...

Jack
 
Just wondering why you boys don't just use a traditional two point protractor. Do it right and it'll set both alignment and overhang correctly. I don't mean to knock it, but you do seem to be making a bit of a meal of it.

Various alignments to choose from. Best place to find different protractors to try I've found is the Library section of Vinyl Engine, where there are various protarctors for different alignments that you can download.
 
I agree, a two point protractor works well if (and this is a big IF) you can get the positioning of the grids right.

My old two point protractor had two wholes (for the two positions) and a big black arrow pointing to the pivot. Now the problem is the accuracy in getting this arrow pointing to the pivot, something that you can do quite well with a clearaudio or pro-ject protractor, but with an arrow on a piece of paper I always felt it was "about right" if you know what I mean...

The protractor I use now (downloaded from the site you mentioned) has a line to follow that gives you a much higher number of points to measure overhang and alignment, as well as the traditional two points... but it is not as nicely made as the Pro-ject one... so I need a mirror for azimuth, and a few other bits and bobs to get it all aligned.

Do you know if the Pro-ject protractor is universal, ie, works with any arm/tt combo or is it only for Pro-ject tables/arms?

Thanks!
Jack
 
JackOTrades said:
I agree, a two point protractor works well if (and this is a big IF) you can get the positioning of the grids right.

My old two point protractor had two wholes (for the two positions) and a big black arrow pointing to the pivot. Now the problem is the accuracy in getting this arrow pointing to the pivot, something that you can do quite well with a clearaudio or pro-ject protractor, but with an arrow on a piece of paper I always felt it was "about right" if you know what I mean...

The protractor I use now (downloaded from the site you mentioned) has a line to follow that gives you a much higher number of points to measure overhang and alignment, as well as the traditional two points... but it is not as nicely made as the Pro-ject one... so I need a mirror for azimuth, and a few other bits and bobs to get it all aligned.

Do you know if the Pro-ject protractor is universal, ie, works with any arm/tt combo or is it only for Pro-ject tables/arms?

Thanks!
Jack
Click to expand...

Hmm, what you describe with the arrows doesn't sound like a normal two point protractor. I've seen single point protractors using and arrow, and I'd agree it seems a bit iffy (and I think arm length dependent). Maybe the two were for different arm lengths ... maybe its just a weird protractor ... there have been enough of those over the years.

Your standard two point protractor has two grids and one hole, and are universally applicable no matter what the arm length is ... course you need to decide what alignment to use, but that's true of any protractor. Just get it aligned on both grids and you are done - no arrows involved.

The Pro-Ject one says its universal, but having played with one, it has 4 settings for four arm lengths (the Pro-Ject arms come in 4 lebgths), so I think its fairer to say its suitable for any arm that uses the same spindle to pivot distances that the 4 Pro-Ject arms happen to. Personally I find it harder to use than the simple two pointer. Very easy to check the spindle to pivot distance though.

There are a number of protractors on the VinylEngine site. The standard two point Stupid Protractor (baerwald and loefgren alignments) and two point Stevenson Protractor are the two worth downloading. The rest are too clever for their own good and don't actually make it any easier.
 
Uncle Ants said:
it'll set both alignment and overhang correctly.
Click to expand...
It will help in setting those parameters approximately. Accuracy requires a more uncompromising approach, unfortunately.
What the Feickert system lacks is a way to develop your own curves and measure accordingly. Bastardizing it with the Vinyl Solution gets quite close to being accurate and is quite flexible. We'd never have spotted that the Morch's on and off positions put the pivot point in a slightly different place without the Feickert guage.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top