money for sound

[amir]

Hi
I think most dealers try to sale more expensive components vs solving basic problems like room acoustic.
i know a body that he spend over 200,000$ for system and if you see his room you think the man is so crazy because his room is under standard for listenning.
after 6 month he say to his dealer that sound is not very good and dealer tell him you should change your speaker cable and i give you a 8000$ cable for solving problem
he buy it and see sound was better but never undrestand basic problem will effect on his brain in long term.
i think hifi business is one of most unclear business in the world.

what's your idea?

 

[ditton]

If I spent anything approaching $200K on a system and then reported that it was not very good, then its a doctor, not a dealer I should be speaking to.

I suspect that you know some bodies with a lot of money, and a dealer gives the customer 'what he wants to hear' - which is 'buy this and it will get better'.

I suspect that the man you speak of has more than one room in his house. Prompt him to re-install his system in the room that you think it would sound better in.

Confession time: I am told that my room is far from ideal, and yes I search after tweaks. But $8,000 is a lot for a tweak!

 

[Garmt]

Room treatment is one of the single most underestimated 'tweaks' in audio. Actually, it is a NECCESSITY for good sound. It needn't be expensive or specialist, just try to get enough damping and a symmetric set-up as much as possible. When I see speaker setup in some very expensive set ups, my heart breaks... I can do a bit more myself, but not without ruining the decor too much.

 

[ditton]

just try to get enough damping and a symmetric set-up as much as possible.

I think you mean 'asymmetric', don't you?

There a a few threads over on hifiwigwam on room accoustics. I also found http://www.decware.com/acroom.htm
and
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/roomacoustics/index.php
if you really want to spend time.

From http://www.hometoys.com/htinews/aug04/articles/psb/bass.htm

we get:
"size of the listening room. The larger the volume of air a speaker must excite, the more acoustic output you will require from it to achieve the sound levels you want. In any environment, sounds attenuate as you move farther away from their source, but in smaller rooms that tends to be offset by reinforcement from wall reflections. The larger the space is, the farther the sound has to travel both to reach the reflecting surfaces and then to get to your ears, which means it has to be louder to begin with."
and
" shape. In any room, sound reflects off the walls, ceiling, and floor. If the distance between two opposite parallel surfaces is a simple fraction of the wavelength of a particular frequency, notes of that frequency will bounce back and forth in perfect phase - an effect called a standing wave or room mode.

At some point in the room, this note will be reinforced substantially; at others it will cancel out almost entirely. If the prime listening seat is placed at either of these locations, the note will boom or will be virtually non-existent. The standing waves are different between floor and ceiling, side walls, and end walls, unless any of these dimensions are the same. An ideal listening room would have no parallel surfaces - an unusual situation, to say the least - so that such waves would not establish themselves. The worst kind of room is a perfect cube."

At this point I confess that my listening room - my shared living room, is 15' x 15' x 10.5', with added baywindow. Doesn't do too well on the charts, has yet to be measured objectively, but does allow some good sounds!

 

[Tenson]

Well just look at how mad Titian went when he discovered room acoustics

 

[NilsTentacles]

I can second the importance of room acoustic. I have four diy broadbandabsorbers, fairly large, and a big wolly carpet infront on the speakers. I think I am at a point now where the actual size of the room is the bottleneck. I have 13 squaremeters now, and I think the double would do a huge improvement of the sound.

check out my different acoustic setups if you will:
http://web.telia.com/~u38009703/hi-fi/ritningar/

 

[ditton]

I think I am at a point now where the actual size of the room is the bottleneck. I have 13 squaremeters now, and I think the double would do a huge improvement of the sound.

now that would be a Tardis tweak you would be needing ....