more fundamentalism

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BerylliumDust said:
Why do you think I now like metal drivers? Because they have the best ratio stiffness/mass and thus they can accelerate and stop quicker, because they are lighter, and with less distortion (break-up modes), because they are also stiffer.
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Im not an expert but I have read the following:

1) metal is not lighter than paper for example. Or Kevlar. Or carbon fibre. I do not understand in which way it is lighter?
2) metal cones 'resonate' at certain frequencies. Ive read that these frequencies often occur in audible frequencies. Could this not be called distortion?
 
Why do you think I now like metal drivers? Because they have the best ratio stiffness/mass and thus they can accelerate and stop quicker, because they are lighter, and with less distortion (break-up modes), because they are also stiffer.
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I seem to recall Focul (JM LABS) making a big deal over their W-sandwich drivers .Ie , that they are both lighter and stiffer than their equivalent metal drivers.
I checked on their website for some info to back up the claim (I,m 95% certain that I read this), but alas I couldn,t find anything in writing .
Then again , you havn,t produced evidence to substantiate your claim either ;)
So , on the basis of my unqualified evidence shouldn,t you be trying some JM Labs instead of your Yammies?
You also get thae added bonus of getting rid of that awful quack (colouration)that seems to be prevelent in metal drivers :)

edit
Ah Chris , you beat me to it :D
 
In many respects BD move to 'cables do make a difference' has indicated that really he, and I suspect oedipus, are really just trolls. Obviously bored with winding up people on other forums, they then decide to do it here.

Throughout this forum they have constantly stated that measurements always tell the tale, and yet have never shown any proof. At least ADB put in links to web pages.
 
Lee, I'd give oedipus a bit more credit than BD even though BD is a close personal friend of mine and I've never met oedipus. BD's opinions seem to change with the direction of the wind, whereas oedipus has always stuck to the same line and he has, in fairness, given references to specific AES papers etc in a number of his posts.

Michael.
 
I'm outraged by BD's lack of cable scepticism. I thought he was supposed to be an objectivist, what the hell's the world coming to?

-- Ian
 
null test - a way of wiring up your amp so it produces silence if it's any good. this is obviously the best way to evaluate an amp isn;t it? by NOT listening to it. i mean come on us subjectivists get flak for thinking some wire makes a difference but this piece of mopery (if not dopery too) just goes from the sublime to the ridiculous. yes, this amp sounds great because it makes no sound. jeeesus has everyones sense of irony just gone dead or something? or is it all just some big wind-up?
cheers


julian

obviously this post is a feeble attempt at humor so it will no doubt engender some vicious strop in someone resulting in them quitting the forum.
 
Thanks,but I think I will give it a miss.I mean,as Julian says,wiring an amp to listen to the sound of silence,which is supposed to signify that there is no distortion??! I think I might be having a nightmare,where I get captured by an alien and forced to read some alien mantra.I will check again tomorrow and see if this is all a bad dream
 
Saab said:
I mean,as Julian says,wiring an amp to listen to the sound of silence,which is supposed to signify that there is no distortion??!
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Well, he was being ironic. The null test is actually an excellent way of measuring distortion in an amp in real world conditions (driving speakers) with real music (as opposed to test tones). Can also be used with cables and preamps to similar effect.

Basically, you subtract the output from the input (at matched gain) and listen to (or measure) the difference signal which would be total silence in something that created no distortion (output signal equal to input signal).

Michael.
 
I just want to make clear that I like earth as it is... nice and round.

As for measurements...

NS1000-sch01
 
bottleneck said:
Im not an expert but I have read the following:

1) metal is not lighter than paper for example. Or Kevlar. Or carbon fibre. I do not understand in which way it is lighter?
Click to expand...

What you want in first place is that the driver don't break-up when submitted to strong accelerations. You need driver rigidity for piston-like movement.

Then you want that the driver be as quick as possible, thus you need lower driver mass, as lower as possible.

bottleneck said:
2) metal cones 'resonate' at certain frequencies. Ive read that these frequencies often occur in audible frequencies. Could this not be called distortion?
Click to expand...

I recommend that you read what Monitor Audio says about metal drivers... they do use damping ceramic material.
 
BerylliumDust said:
What you want in first place is that the driver don't break-up when submitted to strong accelerations. You need driver rigidity for piston-like movement.

Then you want that the driver be as quick as possible, thus you need lower driver mass, as lower as possible.



I recommend that you read what Monitor Audio says about metal drivers... they do use damping ceramic material.
Click to expand...

Ah. I see.

I think I need to employ a translation filter, I know what you really meant to write was..


'' Yes, of course I was completely wrong when I indicated that metal is a lighter substance than paper, silk, or other very light materials used for cones. In fact my statement was ludicrous.

I was in fact saying that berillium is a very light metal, and therefore a better choice in some regards than other metal drive unit materials.

I was also wrong to blindly say that metal cones produce less distortion. This is just not true. However, if you coat the metal with another material you can help to reduce its resonant frequency.

If you're very bored you might want to read Monitor Audio's marketing material. They use metal cones, and since I use metal cones too, their spiel makes me feel good about my purchasing decision.''


Not so hard?? :D
 
bottleneck said:
'' Yes, of course I was completely wrong when I indicated that metal is a lighter substance than paper, silk, or other very light materials used for cones. In fact my statement was ludicrous.
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Please read carefully. My last post shows a table that compares beryllium (which is a metal) tweeter's mass with other tweeter's material masses.

bottleneck said:
I was in fact saying that berillium is a very light metal, and therefore a better choice in some regards than other metal drive unit materials.
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Beryllium is the lightest metal...

bottleneck said:
and since I use metal cones too, their spiel makes me feel good about my purchasing decision.''
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Good for you... but I use metal domes which are even smaller and have a better dispersion pattern.

bottleneck said:
Not so hard?? :D
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Get it harder...
 
BerylliumDust said:
Beryllium is the lightest metal...
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I think you'll find that Beryllium is in group 2, with an atomic weight of 9.01218.. There is a group 1 metal which is quite a lot lighter, at 6.94 - that's LITHIUM...
Mebbe someone needs to produce a Lithium alloy tweeter for extreme ultra-lightness!

And fwiw, metal tweeters may be all very well, but having had experience of a Hartke 4x12" metal driver cabinet compared to an EV 15" paper cone cabinet for bass guitar, I stuck with the EV - warmer, deeper and less tiring..
 
isn't lithium prescribed for various mental diseases - make your own jokes up from here....
also iirc it's even more toxic than beryllium.
isn't aerogel the least massy substance on the planet though? my mids are aerogel so perhaps i should start crowing about that then.
cheers

julian
 
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