Morel drivers...

Don't know and don't care anymore, just getting back to enjoying music

 

I don't know either Wolfgang, but I suspect it has a lot to do with the distortion characteristics and of the drive unit as used in the speaker in question.

 

So why did you buy those JBLs...

 

Thumbs up... :beer:

 

Nice to see you are rattled again

The answer is simple - I wanted them and they are superb. They'd still sound no better than a 10" volt though if the cabinet design was compromised or the crossover incorrectly implemented (OK maybe that's stretching things )

 

Good Grief!

Antonio, are you going to pollute this thread as well?

Perhaps you should go away and watch some movies for a long, long while.

 

grahamc,
have you got any web or e-mail addresses for other speaker kit manufacturers? any other stuff would be much apprieciated.
cheers

julian

 

You should have said that when the tug poluted all the threads I contributed, now you are too late, pay back time...

Still, even before I read it others noticed the usual nonsense from him...

 

We'll see about that.

 

I better watch out... :duck: :clint:

 

only kit makers I know, there must be more, are south coast speakers, the transmission line one, wilmslow, falcon, and adire in the states, hifi world did speakers, too, I think you can still get the designs.

 

Is this some kind of tribute band

 

I hope people have understood what I was trying to say, that a loudspeaker is the sum of many important parts. I have not seen anyone disagreeing with that.

But I do ask you to keep the pollution to the Quake thread - I'm happy to do the same. Your current crusade is IMO in danger of alienating a number of good people from ZG and this is a shame. Let's try to keep the rest of the forum free from petty squabbles - I must admit, it's becoming a rather tiresome place at the moment

 

You mean your current crusade...

OK, from now on I wont start any argument with you, but I will still answer whatever ridicule attack you make...

 

To a certain extent frequency balance is one reason for this. A speaker that is has a slightly raised presence region will be percieved as having more detail than a neutral speaker.

From the perspective of the drive units themselves is it to do with various parameters, such as

resonance - of the cone/dome and various other parts of the drive unit - including the basket and mounting plates.

moving mass: BL ratio - determines the control the motor assembly has over the cone

suspension compliance - has an affect on transient response

suspension/ cone interface - has the an affect on the way energy within the cone/dome is dissipated and how damped the reflected energy is.

cone material with respect to energy storage etc

The cumalative effect of all these (and other) parameters of the drive unit can be reasonably well sumarised by obtaining a waterfall plot, (a 3D level/frequency/time domain response), for the drive unit. Good units can be easily distinguished from other units by there much faster loss of energy and lack of resonances in the time domain.

With respect to the importance of the cone material. Well the cone material has a very large influence on the electrical characteristics of the motor assembly and the other physical aspects of the drive units design. The end result is that the cone has a significant influence on the performance of the finished drive unit is a major way. It affects such things as frequency response, cone break up frequency and severity, cone movement linearity, THD distortion and intermodulation distortion.

Of course putting drive unit in a box has a fundamental affect on the sound produced. For a start most drive units are designed to work in a box (of what ever design - vented etc), with the enclosed volume as part of the way the drive unit works. Look up Thiele Small parameters for various drive units and you'll see that it's not as simple as to say a 10" bass unit should be put in a box of X litres volume to work properly.

Every part of the speaker has an effect on how well the other parts can work, but if there is one fundamental truth about speaker design, it is. You can NOT improve the performance of a given drive unit any further than its specification will allow. All cross-over/cabinet design etc can do is release the full potential of the drive units being used, (there is some leeway within the crossover to improve the electrical characteristics of the drive unit but the better the drive unit works natively in this respect the less work has to be done in the cross over). For this reason you will never get a great sounding speaker by using mediocre drive units, no matter how good the cross-over or cabinet in use. You can however, get a very good sounding speaker by using good drive units and ok quality cross-overs, (assuming they have been suitably matched with the drive units), and cabinets. As has been proven by many a speaker manufacturer.

GTM

 

OK, I admit my original post may have been badly worded

I'm man enough to confess! Whilst we are on the subject of speaker design GTM, what are your thought on 2 way vs 3 way or 4 way. you appear to be saying that it's relatively easy to match drive units with OK quality crossovers. Would it not therefore make sense to use multiple drive units well within their capabilities to prevent any THD caused by cone breakup? I sometimes wonder why this approach seems so unpopular with audiophiles but is the mainstay of many monitors and professional products.

 

I think 3 or 4 ways are not as popular as they where for several reasons:

Smaller rooms, apartments instead of detached homes

- they need to be further away in order for the drivers to integrate well
- they have more bass, excite room nodes wich are at higher frequencies

It is a lot more expensive to make an equivalent quality 3 way than a 2 way, and subwoofers are more accessible and also usefull for AV

WAF, the other half has more "influence" than ever, and most of us are more sensitive to decor, also, smaller houses dont have dedicated music rooms...

 

Yes but why not use a dome/cone for the midrange and a bass unit in a three way then? It won't take up any more room

 

You must be talking about the new Harbeth floorstanders, Merlin

What about these 5 objectives for crossover networks (which I've shamelessly copied from somewhere):
1. To divide the incoming audio signal between the bass, mid and high frequency drive units so that each unit is only receiving the signal range for which it was designed. If a tweeter (the high frequency drive unit) receives low frequencies below their ideal operating range they 'bark' and are prone to destruction, as low frequencies contain high energy. High frequencies fed to woofers (bass units) pose a problem of reproduced quality and 'beaming', but at least the woofer will not be prone to damage.
2. To adjust the amount of electrical energy that reaches the drive units across their working bands. For example, if the tweeter is more sensitive than the woofer (i.e. it produces a louder sound for a given signal input) the signal input to the tweeter will have to be throttled down so that the overall LF/HF balance of the speaker system is acceptable.
3. To set the pattern of radiation from the drive units by means of combinations of level and phase such that the drive units integrate into an acceptable overall sound pressure system response (the so called system frequency response) over as wide a physical arc vertically and laterally (horizontally) as possible.
4. To correct for the 'baffle step' whereby sound pressure builds up on the face of the speaker (the baffle) above a critical frequency due to the baffle casting an acoustic shadow
5. Maintain an easy electrical load for the driving amplifier, despite the complex electrical load that the drive units present to the network itself.
That sounds like quite a complicated set of objectives to achieve.

 

It will still be larger, also not play the lower bass and more expensive than equivalent quality 2 way...

And a good 2 way with well integrated sub is very good, very convenient and easier to integrate in the room, as you well know, and I am not referring to mine as you never heard it...